To not like giving my symptoms to work over the phone when calling in sick?

[Velvetchocolate]

Does anyone else hate this or am I being precious?

But having to relay your symptoms over the phone before 7am is not supportive, is it? And it clearly isn’t intended to be!

I used to hate being on the other side of this. For some reason lots of people felt the need to describe their gastric issues in detail. I didn’t need (or want) to know the consistency of anyone’s bowel movements. Or how long they had spent on the loo that night … just saying a dodgy stomach would have done the job!

@JuicySatsuma85

YANBU & legally you do not have to tell your employer why you are off sick unless it is a work related illness/injury.

I had to take a week off while I was miscarrying. It was fuck all to do with my boss. I don’t care what admin HR like to do around sick leave. It was no one else’s business. As an adult I can decide for myself if I can’t come into work.

LEGALLY it depends. In a health or care related employment you cartainly need to tell them if its infectious, norovirus or similar, something that could decimate the workforce or affect the people you are caring for. It hangs on what its reasonable for the employer to know and that will vary from case to case.

Where I work they don't want all the gory details they just want a general idea of the issue and what shifts you are in that week so they can forward plan.

If I called in now with a migrane they just have to cover today's shift and should expect me tomorrow as I am usually fine within 24hrs; if I tell them I have gastroenteritis, they immediately know that they definitely have to cover the rest of my shifts this week but I should be back next week as I work Tuesday-Saturday - we have to have 48hrs clear of D&V before we can return and that would take me to Saturday as a minimum (if it is just a 24hr thing) and my next shift is Tuesday.

It also allows them to organise appropriate check in calls - if I have gastroenteritis then they would probably ask me to call them to update if symptoms got worse or as soon as I knew that the 48hrs would take me past Tuesday. However, if I had called to say I'd broken my ankle and the doctor had said I couldn't weight bear on it for at least 2 weeks then they would schedule a follow up for 2 weeks at the earliest as it is not something that is going to fluctuate and have a possibility of coming back earlier.

" Hi work, I can't come in today I have a medical problem"
" Sorry to hear that. Is it anything we need to know about that might have been caused at work or might effect those you work with?"
" No, nothing like that"
" Ok. Thanks for calling and hope you feel better soon"
"Thanks"

@Velvetchocolate

Oh for Gods sake, someone suicidal is hardly going to not be suicidal because they had to make two phones call before 7am describing their suicidal state!

That’s actually annoyed me.

By all means come and shadow me for a day if you think you know better.

Numerous staff with known mental health issues have called in sick when in crisis. Presumably you think we should just leave them to it and if they die that’s okay? It’s an extreme example, but I’ve been doing this more than 20 years and am offering you the benefit of my professional experience. Clearly you’re not interested in learning though.

YANBU. I don't mind telling my line manager, but it gets passed on to an administrator who has to record the broad reason for absence using a coding system (for whatever reason) and I know from personal experience that's she's the world's biggest gossip. I HATE her having my personal info and I don't trust her with it.

I know that if she shared this sort of sensitive info she'd lose her job, and believe me I'd hang her out to dry if I ever got an inkling that she had, but it still leaves a bad taste.

I'm a manager of a lot of staff - I hate being given symptoms and reasons mostly because I'm so squeamish and they always contact you post first coffee! (Slightly light hearted before I get flamed). Unless there is a big problem with someone on long term sick I am fine with "I'm ill today, I'll probably be back on day x" and leave it at that.

@HeyMoana - was that what I’m supposed to have said? They wanted the symptoms

@WouldIBeATwat in my case, we have to call two people at work (text or email unacceptable as is someone calling on your behalf) before 7am.

Do you really think any of that will contribute towards someone’s mental well-being? And is it actually there in case someone has a mental health crisis?

That’s a different question.

I can’t tell you why those are your employer’s rules. 🤷🏻‍♀️

In most cases, your employer is paying for you to be sick. They need to know why you are absent and have a duty to make reasonable efforts to establish that your reason is genuine. Furthermore, potential risk to other employees should be assessed and support be defined in order to get you back to work in the most cost-effective manner.

But @WouldIBeATwat in no instance would someone being forced to list their symptoms ‘save a life.’

I’m all for robust support available in work but that doesn’t translate to ‘when you call in sick you have to say what’s wrong.’ For one thing, there have been times in the past when I just couldn’t face going to work and I just lied!

For another, people being in the position where they have to share what’s wrong and the symptoms isn’t supportive - it’s to check whether it’s believable and to ‘monitor absence’ which is likely to make people feel more anxious, if anything!

Access to support services, a real emphasis on staff well-being - yes.

Tell us whats wrong with you in case you’re suicidal so we can save your life - really!?

I dunno, I get that nobody should be expected to disclose news such as “I’ve had a miscarriage” to the workplace. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be asked a few more details than “I am ill” if work are paying you and will probably be really inconvenienced by you not turning up and needing to know if it’s going to last a couple of hours, days or weeks.

Just “I’m ill, I’ve got a temperature and cold” or “I’ve got an upset stomach” or “I’ve been run over by a bus and am in intensive care” - give them at least a clue.

No, this is what they should accept.

I know what you mean. I usually let my manager know by teams and once or twice it's been for mental health reasons. I explain as undramatically as I can but it's very personal and hard to have to disclose. When he's in a grumpy mood he'll reply 'Thank you for informing me' which feels so stilted and formal after I've just disclosed something.

[quote Velvetchocolate]@Masterchief507 but that’s sort of why I don’t really like going into it. Maybe being precious but ‘I’m not well’ would surely be fine!

I’ve actually had quite a lot of time off but only one day for sickness. Two days when DD was ill in the autumn. Then I tested positive for covid so obvs had to isolate.[/quote]
I don't think it would be fine. They're entitled at least to basic details because some people really do keep taking time off for mild colds or headaches.

I had really severe explosive diarrhoea a few weeks ago...it was grim! I rang my head at 6.30 and told her...I have really explosive diarrhoea 🤷‍♀️

Not sure why we are so twee and coy about illness in this country!

For another, people being in the position where they have to share what’s wrong and the symptoms isn’t supportive - it’s to check whether it’s believable and to ‘monitor absence’ which is likely to make people feel more anxious, if anything!

But why shouldn't they check whether it's believable and monitor absence? I take it you're expecting to get sick pay?

@DePfeffoff if someone keeps taking time off then there are procedures for this.

What would you say on the phone? ‘Just a cold? You can come in then.’ ‘You’ve got a headache? Get in.’

It helps identify people who are taking the mick, ie I cant come in because I slept badly (which I've had). Hmmm. If that happened a few times with someone underperforming it might trigger a chat!

@Velvetchocolate

But *@WouldIBeATwat* in no instance would someone being forced to list their symptoms ‘save a life.’

I’m all for robust support available in work but that doesn’t translate to ‘when you call in sick you have to say what’s wrong.’ For one thing, there have been times in the past when I just couldn’t face going to work and I just lied!

For another, people being in the position where they have to share what’s wrong and the symptoms isn’t supportive - it’s to check whether it’s believable and to ‘monitor absence’ which is likely to make people feel more anxious, if anything!

Access to support services, a real emphasis on staff well-being - yes.

Tell us whats wrong with you in case you’re suicidal so we can save your life - really!?

You clearly won’t accept anything I tell you.

But I’ve dealt with numerous absences certified as “depression” that turned out to be chronic alcoholism/drug addiction, frequent migraines that turned out to be caused by domestic violence and also had a whole department change layout and working practices due to a high number of back issues in the team.

But sure. If you think “I’m ill” is enough, crack on. It will never be enough for anyone I work for.

Because we can’t help/support if we don’t know.

I’m not accepting that the best way to support people with mental health problems is to try to force them to disclose them, you’re right.

OP, you haven't said what's wrong with employers monitoring sickness absence and checking whether it's believable?

@Velvetchocolate

I’m not accepting that the best way to support people with mental health problems is to try to force them to disclose them, you’re right.

You’re right. Much better to get to the point where they’re suicidal or about to be sacked to find out the truth.