To not like giving my symptoms to work over the phone when calling in sick?

[Velvetchocolate]

Does anyone else hate this or am I being precious?

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

There is usually a return to work form when you go back which asks for symptoms, medical advice you were given etc.

Doesn't that go against medical confidentiality?

@DePfeffoff but how do they do that on a morning phone call?

So if someone rings in sick and you don’t believe them, what do you do? Accuse them of lying? I’m not being obtuse here - I honestly don’t see that the morning of sickness is the best time to have that conversation!

@Snoodleberry

For large employers who care about the rest of the team it tends to be so they can assess if it is something contagious or affects a particular person with another illness.

For example if you called in saying you had been sick they might link it up with six others who also say they have been sick (caused by food maybe or a big night out by a team night before?!), if you say D&V and they have multiple others with similar symptoms it might be a ‘sh*it is this noro or a vomiting virus type thing and we need to implement extra cleaning measures/inform local authorities immediately’.

I would gently recommend you take it less personally and understand it might be that they are trying to take care of others, particularly those who might not have disclosed their long term illness to you. This is why we ask in the company I work for - we have people who have doctors letters saying they cannot come into contact with chicken pox/measles/D&V viruses/etc due to their ongoing condition/treatment plan and we do all we can to protect them.

Of course you might just have a suspicious employer who is a nosy busy body - you will know the answer.

I have never seen a company doing that before . And I’ve worked for big companies/manufacturing etc…

I mean, for us it’s definitely to put us off calling in sick, as the whole process is made as difficult as possible, which ties in with what @DePfeffoff is getting at, which is that for the most part the default setting is not to believe you.

@DePfeffoff

OP, you haven't said what's wrong with employers monitoring sickness absence and checking whether it's believable?

But that’s different isn’t it?

HR should follow absences, have a chat with the person (in a meeting, prepared etc…) and usually will have a sick note to refer to too.

Putting the person on the spot might not be the best thing
Eg you are sent to the hospital as an emergency for tests and you have no idea what’s going on.
Who would want to get into a long conversation as what is happening/symptoms/whatever when you dint know yourself?

Most of my pregnancy was in lockdown but I still had to go in one day a week and it was a pain having to say I was unwell when it was pregnancy related.

"They need to know why you are absent"

So you tell them that they are absent because you are ill.

Yeah … sometimes you feel under the weather generally. I had a nasty virus in 2019 but apart from a cough mostly it was just exhaustion and an aching sort of feeling.

I’m a company director and we expect all staff to give a detailed description of their reasons for requesting absence.

The directors will then work with HR to decide whether or not to authorise the request.

We use the information provided over the phone, as well as absence history and planned duties to decide whether or not to authorise the request, so we do need to ask.

What, so someone rings in sick and you decide whether you authorise it or not?

I don't think that an employer is being unreasonable in asking for the reason for your absence presuming you expect
To be paid whilst absent.

Staff absence is inconvenient for employers they are perfectly within their rights to ask why you are absent.

Yes - ‘why are you absent’
‘Because I am not well enough to come to work.’

should do it, surely?

We don't ask, but a very brief explanation is surely only polite anyway,

Calling in and just saying 'I'm not coming in today' wouldn't be acceptable but 'I'm not coming in today because I'm not well' is fine.

I actually told my employer about both of my miscarriages, it meant they helped and gave support when I was returning to work, they didn't want a sick note for the time off, didn't chase to find out when I'd be back and wanted me to ensure that I felt up to coming back when it was time.

@Velvetchocolate

Yes- the directors decide whether or not to authorise the request based on reasons given, absence history and planned work duties.

@Velvetchocolate

Do you think the poster above is not being a grown up because she doesn’t feel comfortable disclosing her miscarriage?

I always wonder why people are so unpleasant on here. Not wanting to relay personal info isn’t linked to maturity or otherwise. For me, I just don’t like discussing health matters on the phone, because it feels like I am justifying why I’m off. ‘I’m ill’ should be enough.

You don't have to disclose a miscarriage to your employer. It's fine to say "personal/ family reasons" in most cases.

Generally I think the reasoning behind wanting to know roughly what it is, is to do with how long you might be off and whether you might need additional support. In most cases, if people are happy to share, it can be really helpful and supportive.

Having said that though I do agree with OP on the whole. It's a bit backward to have to fill in on a form about what the symptoms were. Legally you don't have to disclose so it should be optional.

Research shows that a properly open conversation at the start of sick absence reduces the length of absences.

We’re such bastards we ask questions about whether absences are linked to menopause (70% of our staff being women between 40 and 65). Only because we’re nosy. Not because we recognise how debilitating it can be.

@Velvetchocolate

Yes - ‘why are you absent’ ‘Because I am not well enough to come to work.’

should do it, surely?

Well yes, but can you see how that creates a challenge for employers in terms of knowing how to support you and how to cover your work whilst you are off?

I can see both sides of this tbh (see my above post).

There's also the issue of pay - there is eligibility criteria for SSP so the company will need to know why you're ill/how long you're expected to be off so that they can ensure you are paid correctly as per SSP criteria and any company sick pay criteria.

My company will give people the option to use a holiday day if they are off for less than the 4 day eligibility for sick pay so that they don't lose money but they can only do it in advance/on the day, they can't can't it retroactively so they need to know when you call in.

So if I had a migrane and would only be off for the day, it would still be recorded internally as a sick day (so they can keep track of any sickness patterns) but I would be offered the option to take it as a holiday (if I had holiday left) so that I would get paid as the first 3 days of sickness are unpaid and I would 100% not get past the 4 day eligibility for sick pay just for a migrane.

@RocketFire7

I’m a company director and we expect all staff to give a detailed description of their reasons for requesting absence.

The directors will then work with HR to decide whether or not to authorise the request.

We use the information provided over the phone, as well as absence history and planned duties to decide whether or not to authorise the request, so we do need to ask.

So let me get that clear.

You would refuse an absence because you dint have enough staff around and it works for you business wise, even if the person has actually very good reasons to not come to work?
Because you’re not a GP or HCW so you aren’t able to actually diagnosed or assess whether someone is fit to work, esp after a few words on the phone right?

That explains a lot on why some companies are shit to work for….

We give a broad area ("neurological" when I had a migraine for example) or we can say "choose not to disclose".

I was off for a few days one week with a two day migraine plus a day booked off for an eye appointment (appointment itself plus travel plus I booked the rest of the day in case they put drops in my eyes) and I had to pick one reason for the absence so I picked the migraine.

@melj1213 but then people will have a sick note from their GP right?

So there is still no need for anyone to go into lengthy description of their symptoms so someone who isn’t medically trained can decide if they out to be at work or they are actually ill.

@RocketFire7

I’m a company director and we expect all staff to give a detailed description of their reasons for requesting absence.

The directors will then work with HR to decide whether or not to authorise the request.

We use the information provided over the phone, as well as absence history and planned duties to decide whether or not to authorise the request, so we do need to ask.

'detailed description'? Like 'I spent the night hanging over the toilet vomiting up greenish stuff, shitting myself too.'?

What if you don't 'authorise the request'? Does the person have to come in, possibly spreading germs on public transport, and then spend the day at work feeling like shit and possibly passing it to colleagues/the public?

I've thankfully always worked at places where 'I've got some sort of cold virus', 'I've got a stomach upset' etc were all that was needed.

Seriously, you ask if it’s linked to the menopause?

I've witnessed a manager querying a doctor's note over reason given for sickness. It didn't go well for the manager. With HR or the very offended Dr.

If you are uncomfortable giving the symptoms to a certain person can you contact HR directly? Most managers should respond appropriately, but if you are uncomfortable perhaps preparing them on a good day with a short meeting or email about how to communicate 'today i will not be able to cope with the demands of the office as my mental health has left me incapacitated'

I know what you mean but they kind of need to know to plan. If it’s a minor ailment and
“I’ll be back in Thursday” as opposed to “I have stress and I’m going to my G.P to get a sick note for as long as possible”. Or “I don’t know when I’ll be back”. Any hints are welcome!