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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think they might actually read a book in English? (Secondary)

179 replies

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:00

DS's English class start reading books, then the teacher uses them to demonstrate some kind of grammar exercise or other construction of the English language - then they never actually finish it.

He's in Year 8, and they've only read one book from beginning to end in class since he started at secondary last year.

They're told they're not allowed to read ahead and often they're not even given the book, they're given photocopied sheets each lesson.

So, they read half of Animal Farm. The point of that was to teach them how to write a paragraph with a persuasive argument, apparently. Once they'd done that exercise, the module was finished and they stopped reading the book. DS loves reading and wants to discuss the content of the book in class. This isn't allowed.

This half term, they've done dystopian fiction but they've only read passages from books, not whole books (e.g. photo copied pages from the Hunger Games). The point of that was to demonstrate the elements needed to do a "creative" short story exercise - they were marked on the inclusion of these specific elements, not encouraged to be creative.

He's only read one whole book at school since he started nearly 18 months ago.

Do your DC read whole books in school?

We used to read loads when I was young! We did English Language AND literature when I went to school - it wasn't all about the mechanics of language, it was about appreciating books too and exploring ideas. I loved doing Animal Farm. We certainly read it to the end!

There's a similar focus on the mechanics and lack of creativity in his art lessons too, but that's another story.

Is this is the curriculum (fucking Gove's influence, still?) or his school, I wonder?

OP posts:
cherryonthecakes · 09/02/2022 20:44

My kids loved the creative writing lessons amongst the dreary technical lessons. They aren't big readers but they'll happily write.

They are at a comp and were taught to pass tests on a dreary syllabus designed by an education minister who thought that he could replicate a public school education. Sad but they need that pass in English in order to move onto their future choices so they play the game and learn English in a formulaic way

SantaClawsServiette · 09/02/2022 20:45

@runningoutofnewnames

How are this current generation going to produce literature of their own if they’re only taught about sections of books.

Yes, and never encouraged to be genuinely creative, but to always be writing (or painting) by numbers?

They will not write, they will make tiktoks.
XingMing · 09/02/2022 20:48

@popularscience, it's why I studied politics at uni, not English. I did not want to dismember texts.

PinkPanther57 · 09/02/2022 20:52

Sadly, I fear few will have the patience to read books in full in the future. The best writers are usually widely read...Even the really good Prep near us had no library anyone used and when children had mastered reading by about Y4 that was it. Means to an end.

XingMing · 09/02/2022 20:54

I understand your view @SantaClawsServiette, and with a DC doing a TV degree I am sympathetic, but what are we doing to leave a decent legacy to educate and inform?

Itsrainingatlast · 09/02/2022 20:56

I teach at a state secondary. All our students read together for 30 minutes every morning. Their form tutor reads out loud to to them and they all follow in their own copy. Really challenging books as well, supports the literacy of all students whatever their level and develops a shared love/appreciation literature. Most students will get through three of four books a year, so maybe 20 by the end of Year 11.

Notwithittoday · 09/02/2022 21:02

Basically if a member of SLT comes in or an inspector from the LA and you’re reading and discussing a book you’ll be in trouble as it’s not deemed a ‘good’ lesson unless you’ve got proper activities going on where you can demonstrate progress. There’s also no time with assessments and so on

XingMing · 09/02/2022 21:04

There is an awful lot of human knowledge on complicated topics that is just never, ever going to be communicated via Tiktok. I get the wish to be cool and contemporary but seriously, who is going to learn heart surgery from Tiktok? More to the point, would you, personally, want to undergo heart surgery from an internet random that said they'd done several successful virtual surgeries....

We teach the way we teach, professor to student, because the professor has been through the mill. They have had successes and failures, experiments that triumphed, and some that bombed.

SantaClawsServiette · 09/02/2022 21:10

@XingMing

I understand your view *@SantaClawsServiette*, and with a DC doing a TV degree I am sympathetic, but what are we doing to leave a decent legacy to educate and inform?
Oh, I didn't mean it would be a good thing. I think we are moving to a non-literate society.
SantaClawsServiette · 09/02/2022 21:13

I did a book group with one of my old university professors a few years ago, just a fun group. He said that in many classes now they have to read the texts together in class, otherwise the students don't read them. Much less will students go out and find and read things related to what they are studying.

The ability to manage the kind of sustained argument that a serious text contains has been lost. Many children simply don't go beyond a year four reading level. Gone are the days when it wasn't uncommon to find working men and women who were keen on Burns or Kipling.

XingMing · 09/02/2022 21:14

@SantaClawsServiette, I think that's the most depressing post ever. If you are right, I want to go into a corner and scream, for several hours.

XingMing · 09/02/2022 21:19

Out of interest, and fear, what do you think a post-literate society will look like @SantaClawsServiette?

SantaClawsServiette · 09/02/2022 21:26

@XingMing

Out of interest, and fear, what do you think a post-literate society will look like *@SantaClawsServiette*?
People will live in the moment because they won't know any history. They will be very much at the mercy of content providers.

Probably the Russians will be in charge, they still read in their schools.

Hillwalker1 · 09/02/2022 21:33

I am a secondary English teacher and try to resist this type of teaching but the GCSE is like this- lots of extracts. Encourage reading at home, and don’t vote Tory.

XingMing · 09/02/2022 21:43

I tend to vote Tory because the alternative options are economic illiterates, but it's not a deal buster for me.

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 22:21

Encourage reading at home, and don’t vote Tory indeed.

OP posts:
runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 22:24

@XingMing

I tend to vote Tory because the alternative options are economic illiterates, but it's not a deal buster for me.
I don't know what to say to this tbh. Do people still believe the Tory's PR that the economy is only safe with them? After their track record?

It's rhetoric.

Not that I really want to get into an argument with anyone defending the Tories right now. I might cry from frustration and grief for the world that might be possible if we didn't have these fucking parasites leeching off all of us.

OP posts:
HereBeFuckery · 09/02/2022 22:48

(English teacher)
We WANT to read whole books!

Literacy levels among students are, on the whole, very poor. The ability to simply read aloud is becoming a rarity, let alone the ability to comprehend text. This slows the pace when studying a book in a way I can't even quantify.

We do not have time to fix this between 11-16 AND teach the 'necessary' skills to pass a GCSE.

This is down to the curriculum, post-Gove reforms. The focus on 'skills' at the expense of knowledge, understanding and simple enjoyment of text has been devastating to English as a subject.

Can your child read, comprehend and enjoy the book? Well, that's all very well but if they cannot identify three literary devices, analyse the effect, evaluate the effect and reproduce a facsimile of the device then what are you even doing in your classroom, hmm? A nice lesson on grammar will tick lots of 'skills' boxes, y'know...

Don't get me wrong, I love grammar, and I find it fascinating. I just don't want to teach it in tiny digestible parcels to tick some boxes on an Ofsted form. I want it to be part and parcel of a wider discussion and appreciation of language through literature.

eddiemairswife · 09/02/2022 22:55

Too many children are not being educated; they are just taught how to pass exams. I taught Y5 and Y6. I would read to them every day. So many of my fellow teachers considered that you should stop reading to pupils once they left KS1.

gleegeek · 09/02/2022 22:56

Dd is a voracious reader but gcse nearly broke herSad It was all excerpts, technique of how to analyse the language used, not looking at the novel as a whole. She got into trouble once when she tried to answer a question as she'd read the whole book and referred to something later on which changed the way you might perceive what the character was thinking.
I really thought she'd be doing A-level English lit and maybe even degree but it completely put her off the idea. She got 8s at gcse but no love for any of the texts...

sjj257 · 09/02/2022 22:59

One of my best memories of secondary school was reading Moonfleet in English in year 7 - our teacher was amazing!

DdraigGoch · 09/02/2022 23:00

It does come down to time and the fact that it's not enough in an exam to just show that you've read a book and have some opinions about it. The mechanics of writing the essays and hitting the marking criteria is really challenging and students really do need a lot if help with this.
Since before I left school a decade ago, I have maintained that there is nothing so sure to kill a nascent interest in reading as having to write a bloody essay about it.

At school we studied a scene from Macbeth. Put me right off. However a latte friend recommends going to see plays at the Globe Theatre - as they were originally intended to be performed. So there's hope yet, I'll try again.

CPL593H · 09/02/2022 23:13

Late '70s, O level English literature (language was separate)

Lord of the Flies
To Kill A Mockingbird
Pride and Prejudice

Julius Caesar
St Joan

9 Modern Poets (Larkin, Dylan Thomas, R S Thomas, Hughes, Yeats, Owen, Betjeman, Eliot, Auden)

The study was very, very thorough (lots of reading round the class, especially the plays and much discussion) and we were encouraged to read many other things else besides. I think we were lucky really, great teacher and a very engaging syllabus (although I didn't really get P&P until I saw Colin Firth in a wet shirt Grin)

Mustreadabook · 09/02/2022 23:17

We definitely read whole books in my state comp only 33 years ago. Very slowly…

HarrassedMumof3 · 09/02/2022 23:25

This is a really poor curriculum and it won't stand up to the new Ofsted framework.
I'm a secondary English teacher and curriculum lead.

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