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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think they might actually read a book in English? (Secondary)

179 replies

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:00

DS's English class start reading books, then the teacher uses them to demonstrate some kind of grammar exercise or other construction of the English language - then they never actually finish it.

He's in Year 8, and they've only read one book from beginning to end in class since he started at secondary last year.

They're told they're not allowed to read ahead and often they're not even given the book, they're given photocopied sheets each lesson.

So, they read half of Animal Farm. The point of that was to teach them how to write a paragraph with a persuasive argument, apparently. Once they'd done that exercise, the module was finished and they stopped reading the book. DS loves reading and wants to discuss the content of the book in class. This isn't allowed.

This half term, they've done dystopian fiction but they've only read passages from books, not whole books (e.g. photo copied pages from the Hunger Games). The point of that was to demonstrate the elements needed to do a "creative" short story exercise - they were marked on the inclusion of these specific elements, not encouraged to be creative.

He's only read one whole book at school since he started nearly 18 months ago.

Do your DC read whole books in school?

We used to read loads when I was young! We did English Language AND literature when I went to school - it wasn't all about the mechanics of language, it was about appreciating books too and exploring ideas. I loved doing Animal Farm. We certainly read it to the end!

There's a similar focus on the mechanics and lack of creativity in his art lessons too, but that's another story.

Is this is the curriculum (fucking Gove's influence, still?) or his school, I wonder?

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CarrieBlue · 09/02/2022 16:32

I didn’t read a full book in English lessons. I didn’t do any Shakespeare at all. I did 100% coursework for Language and for Literature, both A grades.

Nothing new not to read the full book, and given how much worse funding is in schools now there probably isn’t a full class set of books to hand out not to be returned.

Liverbird77 · 09/02/2022 16:33

Not allowed to read ahead?
Jesus Christ. Is that because the teacher hasn't read the book and is afraid of being questioned?

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:33

@reluctantbrit

DD always either bought the book or got the book from school before a half term/end of term holiday and they were expected to read the book in full before they started working on it.

They often didn't read it fully in class but were expected to know the text enough to draw comparisons between chapters/scenes/character developments etc when they worked on individual parts of the book.

I think she did always 2 books per school year, one could also be a play until Y10. In a case of the play they were provided with free links to performances to watch in advance.

They're actively discouraged from reading ahead of time, and they don't seem to discuss it in class Sad

Is yours a state or private school, out of curiosity?

DS wanted to explore what the animals represented in Animal Farm but the teacher told him the book was about how communism is bad, democracy is good Hmm (missing the fucking point IMO) and apparently got annoyed with DS for asking about totalitarianism (we'd been talking about it at home) as this wasn't what the lesson was about.

I get she was probably under pressure, but it seems such a shame for enthusiastic students to get told to STFU about their ideas.

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SeasonFinale · 09/02/2022 16:34

hi OP you may want to look at abebooks website for reasonable priced 2nd hand books. I think it is great DS does want to read the whole book and you should encourage him. Maybe read them too so he does have someone to discuss them with. It would be such a shame but to nurture his interest

ColouringPencils · 09/02/2022 16:35

It is depressing. My DD is currently doing GCSEs and the teacher told them the end to Jekyll and Hyde so they would be able to analyse the start properly. How is that going to instill a love of reading!?

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:38

@SeasonFinale

hi OP you may want to look at abebooks website for reasonable priced 2nd hand books. I think it is great DS does want to read the whole book and you should encourage him. Maybe read them too so he does have someone to discuss them with. It would be such a shame but to nurture his interest
I do buy him the books. And I discuss them with him if I know them (e.g. animal farm) but I don't think have time to be a stand in English teacher, consistently.

When he was little, we read to him every night until he got old enough to read on his own, and by then he loved reading. I'm not worried about him not reading, but I'm worried think he's missing out teaching from a good teacher with a decent curriculum to draw from.

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runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:40

@ColouringPencils

It is depressing. My DD is currently doing GCSEs and the teacher told them the end to Jekyll and Hyde so they would be able to analyse the start properly. How is that going to instill a love of reading!?
Nooooo! Shock That should be illegal IMO! Grin
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Ducksareruiningmypatio · 09/02/2022 16:41

That is absolutely awful
I studied Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Hardy..
We covered a book a term, our teachers were passionate and we all walked away with As and Bs
I feel for the kids missing out on some incredible literature.

crochetmonkey74 · 09/02/2022 16:44

but I don't think have time to be a stand in English teacher, consistently

can you have your own little book club? A chapter a night like when he was little and you read to him?

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:45

@Ducksareruiningmypatio

That is absolutely awful I studied Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Hardy.. We covered a book a term, our teachers were passionate and we all walked away with As and Bs I feel for the kids missing out on some incredible literature.
Isn't it Sad
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SantaClawsServiette · 09/02/2022 16:45

@EmmaStone

This has been my experience with my DC (one now doing A Levels, and 1 doing GCSEs). I found it so sad, plus the literature that they studied for GCSE was pretty boring (I guess unchallenging and accessible for more students).

I was concerned when DD wanted to do A Level English Lit, as she hadn't really read any classics, and she's definitely found it pretty challenging trying to catch up (plus she's reading LOTS in her spare time to try and read some classics that she really should have read at an earlier age).

I had a teacher explain to me that they would target excerpts that would most likely come up in exam questions, and not bother teaching the rest of the text. It seems to totally negate the whole point of Eng Lit if you don't have any real idea on how the scene fits in with the overall story arc.

I went to a very academic private school, and we were doing at least 1 Shakespeare text a year, plus we did Dickins, Bronte, Goldsmith, Chaucer, Falkner, Lee etc etc. We ALWAYS read the whole book in class, and my wonderful English teachers were excellent at bringing the subtext to life. I adored English Lit, and still appreciate good literature (classic and modern) now, I think down to this excellent grounding.

This about the classics really worries me. My dd is bright and would like to study humanities. I don't think every, or even most kids need university but of all my kids she's the one who would really do well in that environment. But I don't feel like she is going to be well prepared.

For a few years when she was in her early teens we home educated and she did a book group with other kids doing the same thing, and they read real books, and not easy ones either. And the kids really enjoyed it, it made books come alive for them. So she at least has that experience, but my feeling is the school system doesn't really understand that reading challenging books takes practice and you have to keep developing those skills, just like with math.

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:45

@crochetmonkey74

but I don't think have time to be a stand in English teacher, consistently

can you have your own little book club? A chapter a night like when he was little and you read to him?

Just don't have time for this atm. Meant to be moving house + working two jobs. So much to do...
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madmomma · 09/02/2022 16:46

I could cry reading this thread. Two of mine are about to start high school, and this sounds like such a dry, reductive experience of a wonderful subject

MrsTophamHat · 09/02/2022 16:47

It does come down to time and the fact that it's not enough in an exam to just show that you've read a book and have some opinions about it. The mechanics of writing the essays and hitting the marking criteria is really challenging and students really do need a lot if help with this.

I'm teaching Dracula at the moment but i'm using summaries for some of the chapters. If we read it word for word, AND looked closely at interesting passages AND learned about ideas about gender, science etc AND did essay writing skills AND tackled full timed essay questions AND then improved them it would take us months.

I'll be doing Of Mice and Men later in the year and that's much shorter. The length of the text has a massive bearing on whether it gets selected or not. I agree it's a bit soulless.

glassn · 09/02/2022 16:48

Sorry, probably not what you want to hear, but mine are at a private school, and yes, they read full books at this stage (incl Shakespeare and classics). This is precisely one of the reasons we went for a private school - I realise we're very lucky to have the choice. NB they don't always read the whole book in class - sometimes their HW will be to read the next couple of chapters.

Jaxhog · 09/02/2022 16:48

My GCSEs were more than 30 years ago! We were expected to buy and read the books outside of class, so we could discuss them in class. I don't think everyone did. My English Teacher would get us to read passages aloud.

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:48

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound ungrateful crochetmonkey74, it's a lovely idea!

Maybe I should aim to start doing this in the new house.

I still read to his little sister every night - or she reads to me these days, more often than not! Except when I fall asleep while she's reading and get rudely awoken "Muuuuum! You're snoring again, you have to read to me now!"

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ConnectingFive · 09/02/2022 16:48

The way they teach English lit takes all the joy out of reading and tries to turn it into a formula you can get right or wrong. The final straw for me was when my eight year old was told to use as many adjectives in every sentence as he possibly could, and to use a thesaurus for "common" words, and to stop using "said". Never mind the fact that this is a child with a reading age well beyond his years, who has been an independent reader since he was four years old, who reads voraciously and who consequently has an excellent and intuitive understanding of the fundamentals of good, solid, clear writing. No wonder when I deal with creative writing students fresh from school their work is full of unnecessary waffle and flowery shit.

English is about READING. Read, read, read. Thats how you learn good grammar and spelling. That's how you learn what makes good writing good.

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:49

Yes, i remember my homework being to read the book also.

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BlackberrySky · 09/02/2022 16:50

My DS is in Y8 at a non-selective state secondary school. He did Lord of the Flies and Midsummer Night's Dream in Y7 and so far in Y8 The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime and war poetry. They have read the whole book/play on all occasions.

glassn · 09/02/2022 16:52

BTW I also still read to my kids at this age. Occasionally this has come up in conversation with friends and they think I'm bonkers. But I don't care. We've read some amazing books together. I know you're too busy to 'teach' your DS English, but could you find the time for a bedtime reading slot a couple of times a week?

Peakypolly · 09/02/2022 16:52

As I drove my DD to school on the day of her English Lit GCSE she asked " What happens at the end of Great Expectations?". I tried not to react with horror,
Independent school. DD got an A. Confused

XingMing · 09/02/2022 16:54

Back when I was at school, while dinosaurs still roamed the earth's distant corners the 1970s, we read a Shakespeare play every term from Y8 plus a novel and some poetry. My English Literature A level syllabus included three Shakespeare plays, Jane Austen, Arnold Bennett, Chaucer, Eliot, Owen and Robert Frost, Katherine Mansfield and a couple of others IIRC. I cannot believe that the educational establishment considers today's provision adequate. Threadbare is closer...

runningoutofnewnames · 09/02/2022 16:54

@madmomma

I could cry reading this thread. Two of mine are about to start high school, and this sounds like such a dry, reductive experience of a wonderful subject
I probably shouldn't mention the art curriculum then.

They don't do any creative work as far as I can see. It's all about the mechanics of techniques. They spent weeks and weeks on texture - not actually making and creating using interesting textures though - oh no.

Week after week of cutting up little rectangles of paper and demonstrating different textures on each, culminating in a presentation of them.

This term they're doing colour. Are they making colourful things? Or mixing paints? No. They are copying colour wheels into their workbooks then creating a presentation of them.

They did manage to get a bit of creativity into the presentation of the colour wheels, to be fair, but still no substitute for painting pictures (which they have never done AFAIK).

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ConnectingFive · 09/02/2022 16:57

They are copying colour wheels into their workbooks then creating a presentation of them.

That's one of the saddest things I've ever read.