If it comes to it would you choose heating or eating?

[Tuliprain]

We were having this discussion the other night. I would choose eating and husband would choose heating - so we are already stuck. Im thinking we could warm up with blankets and hot water bottles etc but nothing you can do about hunger. He says the house will go mouldy and he’s rather be hungry than cold. Such a depressing subject to be considering.

Sadly though benefit agency don’t consider it to be essential. Love them to give a written calculation on how someone on job seekers is supposed to pay the very basics. Or is it the plan that they expect you to get into debt.

When my local council assessed my benefit income for how much they could take back for care they didn’t include things like phone or internet costs as essential for a disabled
Person. Even though paying carer agency rates (£22 an hour) to go shopping or pay a bill at post office cost more once a month than wifi. It was supposed to come out my food/bill budget which they assessed. They would let me Pay for old lady type alarm on necklace but if my Lifeline was WhatsApp no can do.

How the benefits agency can't see that internet is an essential (given that people have to fill in their UC journal ONLINE), is beyond me. And that many people in work and claiming UC also need internet in order to work!!

I'm dreading the switch over from tax credits to UC and I really hope it's been abolished by then!

@Angrymum22 - I would say we live like that now. Except no fire to get dressed in front off but I blast my DDs school uniform with a hair dryer before she puts it on!

It is worrying that we've already had to stop using the central heating as utilities DD was put up and Covid uplift made my benefits go down. If the utilities DD goes up more what else can I cut back on?

@etulosba

A coal fire is heating. And that never used to be cheap to run either. If you have a coal fire, you're not living without heating.

It wasn’t cheap to run which is why often only one room was heated. The point being made is that drastic economies can be made if only one room is heated and that living in a house with heating on one room is a perfectly viable way of living. As many baby boomers will confirm through first hand experience.

And as many younger people can also confirm - although many of us can't even afford to heat one room. We use blankets and hot water bottles.

@KurtWilde

They sent kids down the mines too, shall we bring that back?

Seriously.. this thread is turning into a 'we only had one lump of coal to last a month but we were happy so stop complaining and stick a cardi on..'

It's 2022 folks, this shouldn't even need to be a discussion in what's supposed to be a wealthy country.

Agree. Yes, we can get by without putting the heating on and only eating basic food. But is this what we want for our country?

We’re one of the richest countries in the world. Aspiring for families to be huddled around one heater and pensioners to be scraping the ice of their windows in the morning shouldn’t be acceptable! We’re talking about hard working people and normal families here. Presumably the ones advocating for this are those creaking off the money from the masses?

Spellcheck fail! *creaming

@Florelei

I’m reading this and I’m really struck by the seeming lack of anger about this.

I’m absolutely raging that people are even having to think about making such choices.

I am feeling really angry, too.

As for the choice, theoretically I would choose to eat as I need food to survive.

It's not as simple as being fine with no heating, though. It's not like the old days where homes are designed around a central fire or range. No heating means no heat at all. Electric heaters are not affordable for many. Has anyone tried to live without heating? I had no heating or hot water for a winter once, nomatter what I did I just couldn't get warm and I felt very unwell. I was in my early 20s and in good health otherwise. I don't want my small children living in a damp, mouldy unheated home. Not that we could choose not to pay our energy bill, either way. We do everything we can to save money, and use all the tips and tricks to keep the house warm for as little expense as possible. I just don't see what people in worse financial situations than me will even do.

So yes, angry.

Can't wait for all this and the food price increase too. amp.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/06/tesco-chair-warns-food-price-inflation-of-5-is-just-around-the-corner

@kinex - I think no hot water is worse than no heating. At least you can get warm with a nice warm shower. I don't put our central heating on but we are lucky enough to have a little fan heater, a heated throw, blankets on sofas, hot water bottles and warm dressing gowns, jumpers and socks. It would be awful without those things, especially as I really feel the cold due to an underactive thyroid.

Capitalism relies on disposable income and confidence in spending so it will be an interesting few months and years ahead...

Exactly this. Other than Christmas (although I was still careful) I've been cutting back since October. For me, the post Covid boom we were promised was temporary (June to Sept 2021).

How the benefits agency can't see that internet is an essential (given that people have to fill in their UC journal ONLINE), is beyond me. And that many people in work and claiming UC also need internet in order to work!!

If that's the case then it's either fucking stupid or quite deliberate.

If that's the case then it's either fucking stupid or quite deliberate.

Yep, all messages are online, job applications online, changes have to be declared online. It’s ridiculous to not see it as essential

@Chichimcgee

If that's the case then it's either fucking stupid or quite deliberate.

Yep, all messages are online, job applications online, changes have to be declared online. It’s ridiculous to not see it as essential

I hope it's fucking stupid and they'll fix it.

Worries me more that it might be a quite deliberate trap, so that people miss messages / don't reply in time and get their benefits stopped.

@oopsIdiditagaintoo I think it started out as their rationale was that internet was a luxury, it was for entertainment like a Sky package for instance. The policy is so outdated now. So you'd think they'd catch up and realise that without internet, people can neither fill in their UC journal, look for work, or indeed work if they use internet for their job. And yet they expect people to have an email address for correspondence. So at this point I can only think it's a deliberate way of keeping people 'in their lane', and a handy way to dish out sanctions - thus saving money and creating perpetual poverty through the knock on effect of these sanctions.

I'd choose eating though being without/less heating with two young DC worries me. I don't want them to be cold. It's easy enough to layer up with thermals/jumpers/fleeces/blankets and hot water bottles, but what a choice...

50 shades *

we have been living in a house with only one coal fire for the last two years and its been awful.

I spent my entire childhood in a north- England house with only one coal fire and no CH;' so did everyone we knew. It's do-able. Wear more clothes, keep doors shut, use hot waterbottles in bed.

@UndertheCedartree Yes, will get a heated blanket, thank you! I’m moving to Shetland and it gets so cold there, apparently. The electric heater is expensive to run here cause I’m in a old listed building with sash windows and rotted sills, landlord does 0 maintenance and there’s penetrating damp in the walls too and I’m disabled so need it on a lot, otherwise I lose the will to live. I grew up in communism with power cuts but my grandparents had hungarian stoves, they are huge and tiled and use wood, but in the cities, in flats, it came on for set periods and hot water was 2 nights a week only.

[quote KurtWilde]@oopsIdiditagaintoo I think it started out as their rationale was that internet was a luxury, it was for entertainment like a Sky package for instance. The policy is so outdated now. So you'd think they'd catch up and realise that without internet, people can neither fill in their UC journal, look for work, or indeed work if they use internet for their job. And yet they expect people to have an email address for correspondence. So at this point I can only think it's a deliberate way of keeping people 'in their lane', and a handy way to dish out sanctions - thus saving money and creating perpetual poverty through the knock on effect of these sanctions. [/quote]
This. I thought this was supposed to change and internet be considered a necessary utility?! Or did I dream that?

@KurtWilde What the hell, I found this from 2015.

The UK Parliament says internet service should now be classed as a utility, ranking it alongside essential services like gas and electricity. ... “All of this will require universal access to the internet to engage with vital public and personal services.”19 Feb 2015
www.trustedreviews.com › u...
Internet should be classed as utility, says UK Parliament | Trusted Reviews

[quote AutomaticMoon]@KurtWilde What the hell, I found this from 2015.

The UK Parliament says internet service should now be classed as a utility, ranking it alongside essential services like gas and electricity. ... “All of this will require universal access to the internet to engage with vital public and personal services.”19 Feb 2015
www.trustedreviews.com › u...
Internet should be classed as utility, says UK Parliament | Trusted Reviews[/quote]
Sounds like one arm of government doesn't know what the other is doing.

I've already written to my MP twice this week but I might write again about this because it's just stupid.

@Chichimcgee

If that's the case then it's either fucking stupid or quite deliberate.

Yep, all messages are online, job applications online, changes have to be declared online. It’s ridiculous to not see it as essential

The other side to it (for me anyway) is all changes will also require a phone call and all online messages will be ignored! While on hold there is a message telling you, you can do everything online. If that was so I wouldn't be phoning!!

[quote KurtWilde]@oopsIdiditagaintoo I think it started out as their rationale was that internet was a luxury, it was for entertainment like a Sky package for instance. The policy is so outdated now. So you'd think they'd catch up and realise that without internet, people can neither fill in their UC journal, look for work, or indeed work if they use internet for their job. And yet they expect people to have an email address for correspondence. So at this point I can only think it's a deliberate way of keeping people 'in their lane', and a handy way to dish out sanctions - thus saving money and creating perpetual poverty through the knock on effect of these sanctions. [/quote]
I found that it was a way to prevent people applying. I had a mental breakdown and was on a psych ward with no access to the internet. I was unable to claim UC. I phoned then up and the told me my 'guardian' would have to apply for it for me. I had no idea what that meant so just couldn't apply. Eventually it was sorted that someone came in to help me apply for it but then they said I had to go to the JC for a face to face appointment but I was sectioned with no leave. It was a nightmare (and continues to be 4 years later - I still get no help with my housing costs).

[quote AutomaticMoon]@UndertheCedartree Yes, will get a heated blanket, thank you! I’m moving to Shetland and it gets so cold there, apparently. The electric heater is expensive to run here cause I’m in a old listed building with sash windows and rotted sills, landlord does 0 maintenance and there’s penetrating damp in the walls too and I’m disabled so need it on a lot, otherwise I lose the will to live. I grew up in communism with power cuts but my grandparents had hungarian stoves, they are huge and tiled and use wood, but in the cities, in flats, it came on for set periods and hot water was 2 nights a week only.[/quote]
Oh, you'll definitely need the heated blanket, I should think! And yes, you definitely need to keep warm. Interesting to hear your experiences from childhood. I have a Russian friend - she said the heating was on all the time but they couldn't change the temperature.

Food over heating. I was bought up in the 50's so no central heating then. We had one coal fire in the living room and that was that. We had hot water bottles and as a young child paraffin heaters in the bedrooms, how dangerous was that? The windows were iced up when it was very cold, no double glazing in those days.