If it comes to it would you choose heating or eating?

[Tuliprain]

We were having this discussion the other night. I would choose eating and husband would choose heating - so we are already stuck. Im thinking we could warm up with blankets and hot water bottles etc but nothing you can do about hunger. He says the house will go mouldy and he’s rather be hungry than cold. Such a depressing subject to be considering.

Eating obviously. White vinegar kills mould and is much cheaper than heating (or specific mould products)

They sent kids down the mines too, shall we bring that back?

Seriously.. this thread is turning into a 'we only had one lump of coal to last a month but we were happy so stop complaining and stick a cardi on..'

It's 2022 folks, this shouldn't even need to be a discussion in what's supposed to be a wealthy country.

So unless your income is so low that you can already only ever afford to buy from charity shops, never spend on personal care, make up etc, never go to the cinema, have a takeaway, never use Tesco rather than Aldi, never have a day out, or buy a book, or get your highlights done, pay for Netflix, pay for DC activities, then you're not going to starve or freeze, and putting your families through the discomfort of cold homes will not be necessary and may come across as a little dramatic.

I'm a working single parent. The above is already my life.
Get my highlights done?? One of my teenage children cuts my hair!
I think this poster misunderstands the living conditions of a great many people.
Just when you think you've nailed getting by on the skin of your teeth, another boot in.

@Twillow single parent here too. I hear you. Some posters just don't get it. They've never lived it.

"It wasn’t cheap to run which is why often only one room was heated. The point being made is that drastic economies can be made if only one room is heated and that living in a house with heating on one room is a perfectly viable way of living. As many baby boomers will confirm through first hand experience."

I know what it's like and I'm younger than a boomer. But a coal fire did heat a lot more than one room. The chimney went up through the house, so other rooms got some residual heat from the fire. Not fully warm, like central heating, but it took the edge off and prevented damp to an extent. If you have a house with absolutely no heating on except maybe an electric heater in one room, the rest of the house gets freezing cold very quickly and stays that way for weeks. Even putting the central heating on takes days before the house feels warm again.

I've lived in a house with just a coal fire, where you dress in front of it to try and stay warm. It's still a pretty miserable way to live in winter, but isn't comparable with no heating, or sparse heating from a small electric appliance/ hot water bottles where the whole house just behaves like an ice box.

In any case, boiling kettles for hot water bottles and running electric heaters isn't free either.

Add to that job losses as employers also feel the effect of increased running costs.

Add to that job losses in non essential services and non essential retail. As that's where the squeezed middle will cut back.

@Twillow

So unless your income is so low that you can already only ever afford to buy from charity shops, never spend on personal care, make up etc, never go to the cinema, have a takeaway, never use Tesco rather than Aldi, never have a day out, or buy a book, or get your highlights done, pay for Netflix, pay for DC activities, then you're not going to starve or freeze, and putting your families through the discomfort of cold homes will not be necessary and may come across as a little dramatic.

I'm a working single parent. The above is already my life.
Get my highlights done?? One of my teenage children cuts my hair!
I think this poster misunderstands the living conditions of a great many people.
Just when you think you've nailed getting by on the skin of your teeth, another boot in.

If you'd included the second half of my post it would be apparant that I fully understand the living conditions of a great many people, I've posted on this thread at length about the difficulties of living on a low income. You have chosen only to focus on the first paragraph, which clearly doesn't apply to you. However it does apply to many of the demographic who use MN and for whom the choice of heat or eat will remain theoretical. I think my point is, like anything, this issue will not be one that affects us all equally. For many there is no real cause for alarm while for others it will be catastrophic if no support is forthcoming.

I know so many people who have family members basically on 24 hour life support at home with machines constantly going and their homes need to be kept at a constant temperature. I'm seriously worried about we what they're going to do.

I don't want this £200 loan / tax / rebate on my electricity bill. I'd rather the money went to help people like this. I genuinely think that the money should be going to help the sick / disabled / elderly. I have written to my local MP and I hope others do too.

I also think that as is so often the case, support that is forthcoming is badly targeted. I am fortunate enough now that I won't need to make a choice between food and heat, yet I am apparantly going to get a discount on my council tax to help me with the extra costs of my utilities (yes, I know, I can donate this, but what a waste of time and money to give me help I don't need for me to pass on rather than it going direct.) Similarly, the winter fuel payment of £200 given to everyone of a certain age whether its needed or not. Clearly there is a government budget that would help people avoid the choice in this thread, but it seems it will continue to be spent in ways that are driven by politics rather than need.

@AnotherMansCause

Half and half. We put off turning on the heating for as long as possible (I think we left it until early December) & now we only have it on for a couple of hours in the morning & again in the early evening, at about 18°c. It doesn't usually get up to 18°c though, unless the sun is shining in. We have blankets on the beds & downstairs, & draught excluders at the doors. And re food - we just reduce expenditure as much as possible. Tricky as DD & DH are fussy, & I'm intolerant to a lot of foods but we do our best. DH only eats once a day, I usually eat twice a day but only once daily at the weekend, & DD eats twice a day at weekends (but often forgets to eat breakfast anyway). You do get used to being hungry, or altered / stretched out mealtimes. Your body just adjusts to it over time.

I'm going to make a curtain for the front door this year. Our house is in a very exposed position & the front door opens directly into the living room.

This is so sad - how will you cope next year? 😢

Fortunately, we now live in a very well insulated apartment with underfloor heating and solar panels, making our energy costs relatively low (under 50 euros pm in the winter). Three years ago it was a very different story and DD and me slept in the living room because it was so cold in the rest of the flat (God those were dark times). Hopefully this awful situation will stimulate the government and property developers to pull their fingers out to better insulate homes.

@oopsIdiditagaintoo

Add to that job losses as employers also feel the effect of increased running costs.

Add to that job losses in non essential services and non essential retail. As that's where the squeezed middle will cut back.

I was going to elaborate on this. So true. After the last two years this may be the end of many small businesses. Heating is often a very small part of running costs for many of the entertainment/leisure businesses, but energy use is high.

Years ago when I had no money my electricity was often cut off. I lived on potatoes and pasta so there was nothing to cut back on. I had no fridge, no washing machine, barely owned anything that even used electricity. Lights were mostly the problem, it's horrible living in the dark.

Heating is often a very small part of running costs for many of the entertainment/leisure businesses, but energy use is high.

I was thinking more along the lines of the squeezed middle cutting discretionary spending on things like meals out, hairdresser apps etc and diverting the money to essentials. That's what my friends and I are all doing. Not cutting them out completely but reducing spend.

This is so depressing, what is the point in working all week just to barely scrape by on basic survival?! If the choice is heating or eating, I'm contemplating a one way flight to sunnier climes. Oh wait Brexit...

@oopsIdiditagaintoo

Heating is often a very small part of running costs for many of the entertainment/leisure businesses, but energy use is high.

I was thinking more along the lines of the squeezed middle cutting discretionary spending on things like meals out, hairdresser apps etc and diverting the money to essentials. That's what my friends and I are all doing. Not cutting them out completely but reducing spend.

I used to own a café. I just about survived the recession about 15 years ago, but what did stop was peoples daily coffees. And that was our biggest profit margin. The rent was crazy and energy bill even more so. Lights, heating and cookers, toasters, grills, coffee machines, deli counters etc. running all day long. It will absolutely kill a lot of these types of business off now. Many are on their arses already after the Pandemic.

On our local community page, the two new coffee shops are constantly touting for business, well they are competing against chains and independent coffee shops that already exist. Like you say @RainbowZebraWarrior at the moment people simply can't pay three or four quid for a coffee and another three quid for a slice of cake on top, and those who can afford it are scared to at the minute and being cautious due to the headlines of doom and gloom. Capitalism relies on disposable income and confidence in spending so it will be an interesting few months and years ahead...

@Angrymum22

I’ve also noticed that no one seems to mention the other necessity, the internet. I roughly added up our phone ,internet and tv costs each month and as a family of 3 we spend double on media, on average each month than fuel. Probably more if you were to include the cost of running and charging devices. Perhaps we should revert back to one phone ( landline) and one tv per household with just 4 channels. Priorities are so different now.

That sounds like a huge amount you must be spending on media, can you change providers to get it cheaper? We pay £19.50 a month for fast broadband, £6 x2 for DP’s and my phones, £5.99 Netflix, £12.99 Spotify.

I had a severe eating disorder.for years mostly because of money. I really fear that my recovery (six years and counting) will be in real jeopardy. I'd always choose heating.

I've already had to make the choice. I chose eating. There are other ways to stay warm. We have to eat.

Eat. I’m currently working from home. Heating hasn’t been on all day. House is currently 14 degrees. I’m sat wrapped in electric blanket and may get the dog in a bit to use as a hot water bottle!

It’s all relative. We have a small house, with a small mortgage, we are sixties babies so have always lived within our means. We are lucky to be in a position to absorb costs without having to cut down elsewhere. Our fuel bills are relatively low because we chose not to buy a mansion to heat and maintain.
However we will be looking at economising re fuel use.

Perhaps we should revert back to one phone ( landline) and one tv per household with just 4 channels.

Having extra channels on a tv doesn’t use more electricity.

We spend less than £30 a month on two mobile phones and broadband connection/landline. Our energy costs are more than five times that.

I don't think we can go back to landlines alone. We NEED the Internet.... with UC I have had to regularly call them daily to sort my payments out and what about checking emails on the go?

I think what we can all scale down on is changing phone contracts when they run out just get a cheap sim deal. But a smart phone is necessary

My internet is £12.50
With it I receive emails from the school, check the school app. My son does homework on the school apps and various websites.
I can access and send messages regarding benefits, fill out forms, contact professionals.
It’s how I check and make hospital and doctors appointments (gp only accepts requests made online) order prescriptions, order grocery.
On top of all the ‘have tos’ to have access to entertainment for me and my son, be able to contact people for free, especially family in other time zones, be part of a community like this one so I don’t feel so isolated and depressed.
The internet is necessary now days.