Rishi's £200 loan is really a sneaky tax

[GreenLunchBox]

So you are not allowed to refuse this 'loan' and from April 2023 everybody's bill will go up by £40 a year regardless of if you received the £200 or not.

twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1489584984235065344?t=joBqwQ20p5VPx3EKYUT2tQ&s=19

Some scenarios:

1. A married couple receive the £200 now then split up. In their new houses they each pay back the £200 over the next five years. So it's actually COST the couple £200

2. 5 students in a house share receive the £200 between them (so receive £40 each). They all move out and then each get charged £200 separately over the next five years. Government gets £1000 when they were only given £200.

3. A young person living at home about to move out. They didn't receive the £200 as it went to their parents, but they have to pay an extra £200 on their bill over the next five years

When you scale this up the government are going to make an absolute bloody fortune from this - doubling or quadrupling their money in some cases whilst pretending to be the good guy.
What a racket they're running.

AIBU to say we need to stop this racket?

These scenarios people are throwing around are getting ridiculous.

Every domestic meter is getting £200.
Every domestic meter will pay it back over the next few years.

If you move around, it doesn’t matter, the above will still be true.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Like furlough and the self employment grants and loans through covid, it's a blunt tool with zero thought as to the detail.

Yes I think they're assuming it sounds good as long as people don't look into it deeply.

@HelenaHandcart0

And having gone up by £40 I doubt it will ever go down by £40.

Exactly!

Same with the £150 council tax rebate - nope - councils will just increase the tax by £150.

YABU.

Not because of the anger at the lack of government action, they should be doing soothing more, and this scheme is pretty pants in all honesty.

However, the way in which you have described it makes it sound like some giant Ponzi scheme. It’s not about making thousands, it’s about the left being split amongst a number of households, now whether these household dynamics change over the next 5 years is something that would be a pain to track. Also it works both ways, some would benefit from the £200, move in with a partner and only pay half back.

I must be a bit slow to this then. Are people saying that every household in the UK is going to be forced to take a loan by the government? If that’s true then that is appalling 😡

@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase

I must be a bit slow to this then. Are people saying that every household in the UK is going to be forced to take a loan by the government? If that’s true then that is appalling 😡

This is exactly the kind of misinformation that is being sprawled over this thread.

It’s not a loan in the actual sense of the word. Think of it as a tax to future energy bills to delay the pain of the increase this year. Don’t get me wrong - it’s crap, it’s not doing enough - but it’s not a loan in the true sense.

Think of it as a tax to future energy bills

Exactly. A non progressive tax like VAT though.

They've tried to dress it up as something it isn't and failed miserably.

There should be a way to opt out.

Watch this 2 minute clip by Martin Lewis, it explains it all.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/02/martin-lewis--how-the-flat-rate-p200-energy-bill-loan-really-wor/

I'm not someone who agrees with it but this is a very good explanation

@GreenLunchBox

So you are not allowed to refuse this 'loan' and from April 2023 everybody's bill will go up by £40 a year regardless of if you received the £200 or not.

twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1489584984235065344?t=joBqwQ20p5VPx3EKYUT2tQ&s=19

Some scenarios:

1. A married couple receive the £200 now then split up. In their new houses they each pay back the £200 over the next five years. So it's actually COST the couple £200

2. 5 students in a house share receive the £200 between them (so receive £40 each). They all move out and then each get charged £200 separately over the next five years. Government gets £1000 when they were only given £200.

3. A young person living at home about to move out. They didn't receive the £200 as it went to their parents, but they have to pay an extra £200 on their bill over the next five years

When you scale this up the government are going to make an absolute bloody fortune from this - doubling or quadrupling their money in some cases whilst pretending to be the good guy.
What a racket they're running.

AIBU to say we need to stop this racket?

Thinking this through...

1. Also 2 people get married and move from 2 houses to one house. So they actually benefit by £200.

2. Also, 5 students then move back home after house sharing. So they each benefit by £40 (the next house share tenants will pay back the loan)

3. Also an elderly person moving from their home to live with children or into a care home will benefit by £200.

It's a per household loan. The government loan out £200 to each household. They then recoup that loan from each household over the next 5 years.

Then there's also the £150 council tax rebate which is non repayable and discretionary loan.

I'd prefer not to get the loan as able to afford it but can see how it might benefit others. However if fuel prices continue to soar then it might make problems worse down the line.

Then there's also the £150 council tax rebate which is non repayable and discretionary loan

Do we know where that £150 ‘saving’ is coming from? It wouldn’t surprise me if the government are just going to take it from council budgets.

It’s not a loan in the actual sense of the word. Think of it as a tax to future energy bills to delay the pain of the increase this year. Don’t get me wrong - it’s crap, it’s not doing enough - but it’s not a loan in the true sense

Dress it up as you like but its a mandatory loan per household/meter... repayable @£40 per year.
& for the govt a legal but fraudulent means to make money, especially as they will be getting increased VAT amounts on fuel price rises too.

On students, 2nd year onwards, they will be almost certainly be in private rent & all inclusive of bills, so will leave their shared houses, with those that rent or buy property will pay back something they never had, their original landlord gets the £200 and will doubtless stick the repayments on the rent for next lot of students :(

You couldn't make up a more cack handed scheme if you sat down and tried.

@Alexandra2001

It’s not a loan in the actual sense of the word. Think of it as a tax to future energy bills to delay the pain of the increase this year. Don’t get me wrong - it’s crap, it’s not doing enough - but it’s not a loan in the true sense

Dress it up as you like but its a mandatory loan per household/meter... repayable @£40 per year.
& for the govt a legal but fraudulent means to make money, especially as they will be getting increased VAT amounts on fuel price rises too.

On students, 2nd year onwards, they will be almost certainly be in private rent & all inclusive of bills, so will leave their shared houses, with those that rent or buy property will pay back something they never had, their original landlord gets the £200 and will doubtless stick the repayments on the rent for next lot of students :(

You couldn't make up a more cack handed scheme if you sat down and tried.

I’m genuinely not trying to dress it up, or say it’s a fantastic idea. I’ve stay said that I think it’s a rubbish solution to a problem, and is window dressing by the government to try and down play the cost of living rise and limit support to those who need it most.

However it’s not a mandatory fraudulent loan on part of the government - it’s a tax or a levy which is being applied by the government to paper over a crack in the wall rather than taking measures to fix it properly.

Personally I’d rather just pay the extra now, then have to pay the increased energy price next year and then the £40 on top, but I fully appreciate I’m speaking from a privileged position where I don’t have to worry about whether to put the heating on or have food in the house.

Personally I’d rather just pay the extra now, then have to pay the increased energy price next year and then the £40 on top, but I fully appreciate I’m speaking from a privileged position where I don’t have to worry about whether to put the heating on or have food in the house.

How is that privileged, surely it's the least we should expect in a so-called developed country

@megletthesecond

I've emailed my MP. All before 7am on a Monday. I feel terribly efficient now.

I did too yesterday. He's already replied. He agrees with me and is going to raise it with the chancellor.

Aren’t we all so lucky on MN !1!???

And seriously, it should NOT be considered a privilege to not have to choose between eating and keeping warm.

This mentality is teaching us to accept appalling social deprivation and the hollowing out of all social services.
Just because one family doesn’t ‘need’ them, isnt the point.

We built a society here where all economic backgrounds had the ability to live in dignity and good health (post war). That is steadily running out.

@Butterismylife

Aren’t we all so lucky on MN !1!???

And seriously, it should NOT be considered a privilege to not have to choose between eating and keeping warm.

This mentality is teaching us to accept appalling social deprivation and the hollowing out of all social services.
Just because one family doesn’t ‘need’ them, isnt the point.

We built a society here where all economic backgrounds had the ability to live in dignity and good health (post war). That is steadily running out.

Well said

@GreenLunchBox

Personally I’d rather just pay the extra now, then have to pay the increased energy price next year and then the £40 on top, but I fully appreciate I’m speaking from a privileged position where I don’t have to worry about whether to put the heating on or have food in the house.

How is that privileged, surely it's the least we should expect in a so-called developed country

Correct, it absolute should not be a privilege in a developed country at all. My previous post was poorly worded. In essence what I meant was I feel grateful to be in that position - I don’t think it is something i or anyone else should be grateful for in 2022 in a rich country and I’m appalled that other families are not in the same position.

...meanwhile both Shell and BP have made 10s of billions in extra profits due to gas prices which we are paying & which Sunak will not tax...
Many more energy companies still to report.

Compare with France, which has taxed the energy industry and the French face a rise of 4%

These companies never factored in Covid and huge price rises, so the argument it would effect their investment plans is pure bullshit.

Its about protecting dividends and the shares/investments industry.