Rishi's £200 loan is really a sneaky tax

[GreenLunchBox]

So you are not allowed to refuse this 'loan' and from April 2023 everybody's bill will go up by £40 a year regardless of if you received the £200 or not.

twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1489584984235065344?t=joBqwQ20p5VPx3EKYUT2tQ&s=19

Some scenarios:

1. A married couple receive the £200 now then split up. In their new houses they each pay back the £200 over the next five years. So it's actually COST the couple £200

2. 5 students in a house share receive the £200 between them (so receive £40 each). They all move out and then each get charged £200 separately over the next five years. Government gets £1000 when they were only given £200.

3. A young person living at home about to move out. They didn't receive the £200 as it went to their parents, but they have to pay an extra £200 on their bill over the next five years

When you scale this up the government are going to make an absolute bloody fortune from this - doubling or quadrupling their money in some cases whilst pretending to be the good guy.
What a racket they're running.

AIBU to say we need to stop this racket?

@Octomore

This £200 will only flatten the impact of price rises if 2022 turns out to be a spike and energy prices reduce from 2023 onwards. But that may not happen.

The entire scheme only makes any sense at all if 2021/22 is a temporary spike and wholesale gas prices decrease after that. It seems highly likely, but it's mot guaranteed.

Has anyone started a petition yet? One of those that has to be discussed in parliament if it gets more than a certain amount of signatures.

Rishi will get £200 for each of his 12 homes. That's nice for him

I suppose on the other hand:

People die. They don't have anymore bills to pay.
People move in together. They just have the £40 to pay together.

@cakeorwine

I suppose on the other hand:

People die. They don't have anymore bills to pay.
People move in together. They just have the £40 to pay together.

So we can die to get out of paying it. Yippee

The point is it is a pointless measure and young people are disproportionately likely to be adversely affected by it

@GreenLunchBox

Rishi will get £200 for each of his 12 homes. That's nice for him

Except, just like everyone else, he'll have to pay it back.

This policy is a terrible way of dealing with the energy price increase IMO, but I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.

The point is it is a pointless measure and young people are disproportionately likely to be adversely affected by it

If they move into shared accommodation, then it's going to be split between people.

If they cohabit, then again, shared between people.

I think that if you look at the money out versus the money back, it will probably balance out as a whole.

But some people may end up paying a bit more over the 5 years and some will end up paying a bit less over the 5 years.

Of course it gets complicated when it comes to who the £200 goes to, if you're on direct debit, or if you're in a payment meter, or if you're in a shared house with one person paying the bills, or if the landlord includes the bills in the rent etc.

@cakeorwine

Of course it gets complicated when it comes to who the £200 goes to, if you're on direct debit, or if you're in a payment meter, or if you're in a shared house with one person paying the bills, or if the landlord includes the bills in the rent etc.

I don't think it gets complicated at all.

House share with bills split equally - the net bill (after deduction of the £200, or after the addition of the £40 In future years) gets split equally so all benefit, and all will repay equally.

Landlord pays bills - landlord gets benefit and will also repay. Tenants just pay the agreed amount in their rent for the period, which they've already budgeted for. Tenants whose bills are included in rent aren't usually affected by short term fluctuations in prices, so nothing changes there.

And if only one person pays the bills in a house, that person both benefits and repays. Not complicated in the slightest.

I don't want it. I'm in credit (meter readings sent every month) and on a fully green tariff.

@Octomore

And if only one person pays the bills in a house, that person both benefits and repays. Not complicated in the slightest.

Until they leave. As happens in shared houses.

59Octomore

GreenLunchBox

Rishi will get £200 for each of his 12 homes. That's nice for him grin

Except, just like everyone else, he'll have to pay it back.

This policy is a terrible way of dealing with the energy price increase IMO, but I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.

It's obvious what point I'm making. 12 homes Sunak will receive a £2400 loan when he clearly doesn't need it. Students will likely pay £200 they never received

Until they leave. As happens in shared houses.

But it still isn't complicated even if someone leaves. This is connected to the address, not to the bill paying individual.

If someone leaves, then they will pay the £40 a year at their new address (might be shared with others, or on their own). Not complicated.

The remaining housemates will either continue sharing repayments themselves, or a new housemate will join and that person will then pay a share. Not complicated.

[quote oopsIdiditagaintoo]@AnotherForumUser

Advertising Standards too maybe. Would that work do you think?[/quote]
Possibly. It's definitely worth a shot.

But it still isn't complicated even if someone leaves. This is connected to the address, not to the bill paying individual

I would presume that it's the address and the bill payer who gets the £200.

Then it's 'the address' which has to pay it back.

Household shared bills can always be complicated. I imagine even more now with prices increasing as they are. I can see there might be arguments over people who WFH in a house paying more than their share than someone who goes out to work.

It makes a change from heated discussions over the cost of using a landline though and counting the length of a call and the time of day it took place.

People seriously need to stop using the word 'loan' when they discuss this. It's not a loan. It's a blunt instrument to attempt to flatten the impact of energy price rises at a population level, based on the assumption that this is a temporary spike. It is neither fair at an individual level, nor complicated - that's how population level, non-means-tested interventions tend to work.

Personally I'd rather we nationalised electricity and gas.

People seriously need to stop using the word 'loan' when they discuss this. It's not a loan

It is kind of a loan though. Here's £200 off your bill. You can pay it back over the next 5 years. Some of you who don't get it will have to pay some back, some of you won't have to pay it all back. But there's no interest so that's good.

Funny that France have limited the energy price rise to 4% for their citizens compared to our 54%

France clearly had some price rises last year;

The average cost of household fuel bills in France has risen by €64 per month from December 2020 to October 2021, a new official study shows...

www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Household-bills-soar-by-64-a-month-in-a-year-new-French-study-shows

France's energy regulator said that Engie's gas prices would increase by 12.6 percent on 1 October [2021]
The price of gas already increased by 7.9 percent in September [2021]

www.rfi.fr/en/france/20211001-france-increases-gas-tariffs-but-promises-no-furtther-hikes-before-april-2022

Spain and Poland have cut VAT on fuel. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these countries in the EU?

Spain cut VAT on domestic energy bills from 21% to 10% (reduction currently in force until 30 April 2022 - will they extend it?) - UK VAT on domestic energy is only 5% - EU rules dictated that VAT on domestic energy could not fall below 5%.

How about cutting VAT on domestic fuel like Michael Gove said would happen if we leave the EU?

In 2015/2016 fracking was going to help solve our energy problems - environmentalists complained.

Wondered when Clav would pop up with a nice bit of whataboutism 🤣

Rishi will get £200 for each of his 12 homes

Where does this claim about 12 homes come from?

Newspaper sources say Rishi and his wife own "at least four properties" together - including one in California. Their property in North Yorkshire is set in 12 acres of land .

Isn't this just for certain bands too? Our house is out of the banding but we will still have to pay it too, I guess?

@Raindancer411

Isn't this just for certain bands too? Our house is out of the banding but we will still have to pay it too, I guess?

The electricity levy is for all households, the £150 Council tax reduction is for bands A - D

@oopsIdiditagaintoo

Has anyone started a petition yet? One of those that has to be discussed in parliament if it gets more than a certain amount of signatures.

I signed a Ripples petition a few weeks ago to halt the energy price hikes via a windfall tax.

Will try and link it here

Oh and as I've done on another thread, I'll just leave this here...

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/boris-johnson-michael-gove-brexit-gas-bills-291199/?amp