Rishi's £200 loan is really a sneaky tax

[GreenLunchBox]

So you are not allowed to refuse this 'loan' and from April 2023 everybody's bill will go up by £40 a year regardless of if you received the £200 or not.

twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1489584984235065344?t=joBqwQ20p5VPx3EKYUT2tQ&s=19

Some scenarios:

1. A married couple receive the £200 now then split up. In their new houses they each pay back the £200 over the next five years. So it's actually COST the couple £200

2. 5 students in a house share receive the £200 between them (so receive £40 each). They all move out and then each get charged £200 separately over the next five years. Government gets £1000 when they were only given £200.

3. A young person living at home about to move out. They didn't receive the £200 as it went to their parents, but they have to pay an extra £200 on their bill over the next five years

When you scale this up the government are going to make an absolute bloody fortune from this - doubling or quadrupling their money in some cases whilst pretending to be the good guy.
What a racket they're running.

AIBU to say we need to stop this racket?

Even if your household doesn't change over the next 5 year's, I don't understand what the benefit of this is?

Is there any evidence that energy prices will go back down in 2023? Because if not, all we are doing is accepting more pain in future for less pain this year. It's got no purpose at all.

Something needed to be done. This is something so it was done.
£200 off makes a good sound bite and they hope everyone is distracted by something else by the time the £40 hits

presumably this 'forced' loan will also appear on everyone's credit history?

It's not a loan, so of course it won't.

It's a one-off reduction in a household bill, followed by a household levy charged over 5 years. It doesn't meet any of the usual criteria to be considered a 'debt' - for a start it's charged at household level rather than individual level.

But every person who receives a £200 payment and then dies, or who moves abroad, or moves in with someone else, or moves back home to parents won't pay it back.

Tax take in this country has always worked on the circumstances of the individual on the day. It's nothing new.

What happens if you’re on a top up meter?

It's a shit idea from the tories. What's new?

I don't want it and I don't see how I can legally be forced to have it.

for a start it's charged at household level rather than individual level.

My gas and electric bills are in my name, they are not charged to "the household", as I suspect everyone else's bills are.

I said it on another thread is it to help the energy companies, it doesn't make sense otherwise.

@countrygirl99

Something needed to be done. This is something so it was done. £200 off makes a good sound bite and they hope everyone is distracted by something else by the time the £40 hits

Something needed to be done?

How about cutting VAT on domestic fuel like Michael Gove said would happen if we leave the EU? twitter.com/Number10cat/status/1489549485374152705?t=4ri2b7saBnuf-69ACSkALQ&s=19

Funny that France have limited the energy price rise to 4% for their citizens compared to our 54%, and Spain and Poland have cut VAT on fuel. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these countries in the EU? 🤔

@countrygirl99

Something needed to be done. This is something so it was done. £200 off makes a good sound bite and they hope everyone is distracted by something else by the time the £40 hits

They are hoping that this is a temporary blip due to the rise in demand related to increased economic activity as we come out of the pandemic. It is an utter punt and also suggests that we are in for more steep rises in October when this loan is enforced on us all. What happens if energy prices remain high into next year and beyond and people continue to struggle in the run up to the election and the government is forcing them to pay more for their bills then?

They've also shafted already cash strapped local councils by forcing them to take the short term brunt of this as far as I can tell. I doubt the treasury is going to cover the shortfall in council budgets.

It is the typical MO of this government, all nice words and no actual cash and then blame everyone else when it doesn't work apart from those making the money behind the scenes.

If that is all true, that's repugnant. And actually fucking THEFT! Why is this being allowed to happen? If they give £200 to a couple/family/house share of 5, how can they demand £200 from EACH PERSON later on? This isn't right surely?

I don't want this fucking money. Can I not refuse it?

@MintJulia

But every person who receives a £200 payment and then dies, or who moves abroad, or moves in with someone else, or moves back home to parents won't pay it back.

Tax take in this country has always worked on the circumstances of the individual on the day. It's nothing new.

There's going to be a lot less of THEM lot though.

Rishi Sunak is positively dangerous and anyone who’s taken in by his slick PR campaign is very naive. He would be a disaster as PM. I work in an area loosely associated and can see how dangerous his influence is to normal workers. He. Does. Not. Care.

If he replaces Boris, we’ll look back at the Boris years as the good old days. Slash and burn, transformations for the sake of it, cut staff numbers and resources to show healthier balance sheets. He’s 100% only on the side of the 0000.1%. When the petrol crisis hit, he was in California at one of his twelve houses on holiday calling it a work trip as he had one meeting. He doesn’t give a shit about you and your ability to pay. His coffee cup costs the same as the ‘loan’.

Many people don’t want this loan but watch how hard they will pursue you to claim it back. ‘Oh you missed the letter explaining the convoluted way to repay? Here’s a fine on top of the loan’. Easily managed to write off furlough and PPE fraud and track and trace multi billions though.

@Octomore

Even if your household doesn't change over the next 5 year's, I don't understand what the benefit of this is?

Is there any evidence that energy prices will go back down in 2023? Because if not, all we are doing is accepting more pain in future for less pain this year. It's got no purpose at all.

I think the best guess is that world energy prices, and gas prices in particular will probably go down over the next couple of years yes. Not guaranteed, but likely. The Treasury are intervening this way because that's what they expect - if they didn't then this plan would go from "flawed" to completely pointless.

Irritatingly site is preventing me from posting graph, but wholesale gas prices are volatile and do decrease as well as increase depending on a bunch of global political factors.

I don't want this fucking money. Can I not refuse it?

What happens if you’re on a top up meter?

I didn't say it was the right something. I think it's a "quick think of something before we get more bad headlines" something.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil
Well said

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Rishi Sunak is positively dangerous and anyone who’s taken in by his slick PR campaign is very naive. He would be a disaster as PM. I work in an area loosely associated and can see how dangerous his influence is to normal workers. He. Does. Not. Care.

If he replaces Boris, we’ll look back at the Boris years as the good old days. Slash and burn, transformations for the sake of it, cut staff numbers and resources to show healthier balance sheets. He’s 100% only on the side of the 0000.1%. When the petrol crisis hit, he was in California at one of his twelve houses on holiday calling it a work trip as he had one meeting. He doesn’t give a shit about you and your ability to pay. His coffee cup costs the same as the ‘loan’.

Many people don’t want this loan but watch how hard they will pursue you to claim it back. ‘Oh you missed the letter explaining the convoluted way to repay? Here’s a fine on top of the loan’. Easily managed to write off furlough and PPE fraud and track and trace multi billions though.

Absolutely

The amount of naive people I hear saying how much sense it makes to have a billionaire ex-banker as chancellor or PM 'because he knows how to look after money' makes me want to weep

French domestic electrical supply mostly comes from nuclear power stations which is why their bills haven't gone up nearly as much. I'd argue that we should have also invested in nuclear energy but to be fair that should have happened twenty years ago so it's genuinely not Sunak's fault.

@GreenLunchBox

I don't want this fucking money. Can I not refuse it?

What happens if you’re on a top up meter?

Thanks @GreenLunchBox That is shite.

I mean, me and DH have been together nearly 40 years and are unlikely to split, but millions of people are in households, and relationships, and house shares etc, now, that they won't be in in 2 or 3 years time. And they will all end up paying loads more (altogether) than they received.

This is fucking shit. We should be allowed to opt-out.

I prefer to pay off the h big lump sums.now, not later, even if I'm really stretched for.cash. do not agree to this sneakiness!!

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Rishi Sunak is positively dangerous and anyone who’s taken in by his slick PR campaign is very naive. He would be a disaster as PM. I work in an area loosely associated and can see how dangerous his influence is to normal workers. He. Does. Not. Care.

If he replaces Boris, we’ll look back at the Boris years as the good old days. Slash and burn, transformations for the sake of it, cut staff numbers and resources to show healthier balance sheets. He’s 100% only on the side of the 0000.1%. When the petrol crisis hit, he was in California at one of his twelve houses on holiday calling it a work trip as he had one meeting. He doesn’t give a shit about you and your ability to pay. His coffee cup costs the same as the ‘loan’.

Many people don’t want this loan but watch how hard they will pursue you to claim it back. ‘Oh you missed the letter explaining the convoluted way to repay? Here’s a fine on top of the loan’. Easily managed to write off furlough and PPE fraud and track and trace multi billions though.

100% this. ^

I used to like Rishi. I see him for what he is though now. An over privileged Tory twat who knows FUCK-ALL about what it's like to struggle financially.