Would you consider this an emotional affair?

[WouldYouHaveAproblem]

Firstly this is a hypothetical question, the background first:

I have a very close male friend, we're both single so no issues. We have an emotionally intimate relationship, we spend quality time together, we confide in each other, we message regularly and we exchange hugs and kisses emojis. In person we only ever hug hello and goodbye (no other physical intimacy). We've joked about being in a 'platonic relationship' and we both date other people. Neither of us have been in a relationship since we became friends (a couple of years). And no that's not related to us being friends, we've just not met anyone we want to be in a relationship with (and no, we don't want to be in a relationship with each other).

So here's the question. Yesterday we were having a discussion about when one of us meets someone else and I said, that our friendship will in all likelihood be a problem for a new partner of his. He vehemently denies this and says "it'll be a non negotiable and if she doesn't accept my pre existing friendships and trust me on that it'll never work". I said it's not about the friendship itself, but the depth of the friendship and how much emotional energy you give it that would be a problem. He said, "I have enough emotional energy for both".

How would you feel? (..and the fact that we aren't in a relationship with each other isn't the discussion point here).

YABU - an emotionally intimate friendship with a man who is in a relationship is always an EA
YANBU - if the friendship precedes the relationship I wouldn't consider it an EA

I have close male friends who are important to me, and these friendships have survived decades with no sexual attraction/complications etc, but I am married, as are they *well, one is divorced, but was married for 20 years) .

The only thing that would concern me about your friendship is whether it’s not just coincidence neither of you has met a potential partner in the two years you’ve been friends — isn’t there a possibility that this relationship (affectionate, close, emotionally intimate) is actually preventing you bothfinding a boyfriend/girlfriend?

I also think it’s the way he’s pitching it? If you were just a friend he wouldn’t feel the need to say ‘well I have WouldYou and she’s very special so don’t even think about having a problem with it!’ Comes off all wrong and I think maybe he’s in a diff place with it to you

I have 2 BFFs, one male. Our friendships are a complete non-negotiable with any of our partners. There are things I've shared with them, and vice versa, that I've never told another soul. Absolute trust, friendship, respect, zero romance. There are emotions involved, simply because of how deep and lengthy those friendships are, but not 'emotional affair' type stuff, as is discussed frequently on mn.

Unfortunately my male BFF died last year, I was utterly bereft to lose him after 35 years. My dp was completely supportive of me in my grieving, as he would be if it was my female BFF.

Why wouldn't you treat an opposite-sex best friend the same as a same sex one? As long as there is no attraction on either side, it can be incredibly useful to get perspectives from the other sex on myriad subjects.

Like I said, not accepting my opposite sex existing relationships is a deal-breaker.

I think it would depend on both of your attitudes. If you both spent your time telling 'in' jokes that I didn't get and laughing together at all the same things while watching 'your' favourite shows and I was left to look on then it would it would never work. If you were just nice and normal, friendly and accepting then no problem.

I wouldn't expect him to talk about our relationship problems with you though if it was a serious relationship ie we lived together. If I was you and he did that then I think it would be best to say you need to keep separate from that and he needs to talk to the person he's in a relationship with or a counsellor. I think it could get very messy otherwise - you need to have some boundaries.

This is interesting - there are a good mix of responses. Just to clarify some points:

We're both in our 50s with relationships/children behind us (he has no children and doesn't want any).
He has said "we will need to allow for the honeymoon period but after that I don't expect anything to change in our friendship".
He has other close female friends, I'm not the only one (though I'm not sure if they are as intense).
I've witnessed how much time and energy he gives to all the people in his life (family and male/female friends) - but I've not witnessed him in a relationship yet.

Yesterday we were having a discussion about when one of us meets someone else and I said, that our friendship will in all likelihood be a problem for a new partner of his. He vehemently denies this and says "it'll be a non negotiable and if she doesn't accept my pre existing friendships and trust me on that it'll never work". I said it's not about the friendship itself, but the depth of the friendship and how much emotional energy you give it that would be a problem. He said, "I have enough emotional energy for both".

But that to me does read you and him vs whoever....
'Nothing will come between us' 🥰😍

@WouldYouHaveAproblem

This is interesting - there are a good mix of responses. Just to clarify some points:

We're both in our 50s with relationships/children behind us (he has no children and doesn't want any).
He has said "we will need to allow for the honeymoon period but after that I don't expect anything to change in our friendship".
He has other close female friends, I'm not the only one (though I'm not sure if they are as intense).
I've witnessed how much time and energy he gives to all the people in his life (family and male/female friends) - but I've not witnessed him in a relationship yet.

I may be a dinosaur. That's more than possible.

Still, I've known men like this. I'm not saying any of the things I think could be going on. I'm just going to say that I really wouldn't have wanted to be in a relationship with any of them, for various reasons. Perhaps the next guy like that I meet would be different but frankly I wouldn't risk it. It puts me off. I'm happily married anyway so this is all theoretical. I'm not saying they aren't good people. I'm saying they really aren't people I'd want to have a relationship with.

@Maunderingdrunkenly

I also think it’s the way he’s pitching it? If you were just a friend he wouldn’t feel the need to say ‘well I have WouldYou and she’s very special so don’t even think about having a problem with it!’ Comes off all wrong and I think maybe he’s in a diff place with it to you

Yes I think this is a good point. And as I've said in a pp...I think the introductions would need to happen fairly quickly in order to demystify the friendship.

Yes I think this is a good point. And as I've said in a pp...I think the introductions would need to happen fairly quickly in order to demystify the friendship.

Anything that needs demystifying isn't something I want to go near.

@DrSbaitso

Yes I think this is a good point. And as I've said in a pp...I think the introductions would need to happen fairly quickly in order to demystify the friendship.

Anything that needs demystifying isn't something I want to go near.

I'm talking from the perspective of the new partner. If I was someone who he only ever talked about (and she never met) that would create mystery. Maybe 'demystify' was the wrong word. What I should have said is 'to prevent creating mystery' .

I'm talking from the perspective of the new partner.

So am I.

He says that now, but sorry OP, once he starts seeing someone he really fancies and can't get enough of, the emotional support he gives you will wane. That's how it goes. You won't 'be a threat' to his partner and he'll absolutely want to keep it that way. Words right now are just that

I had an extremely close gay male friend - very similar to what you are describing, OP, but without any possibility of there ever being a partnership between us.

However, what both of us eventually realised was that we were putting the other in the role of 'partner'anyway - and that doesn't leave a vacancy to fill.

The real danger to your future relationships is that it's hard to create emotional intimacy with a new person, when you are unwilling to ease up on a commitment to another.

Usually friendships are able to navigate that, and recognise that the new partner becomes the 'go to' in certain aspects. This doesn't feel like the case here and as a PP says, it probably isn't a coincidence that neither of you have had a relationship in that time - same happened with me and my friend.

When your emotional needs are being met fully by one other person, then there's no driver to find another partner - you are more looking for a shag on the side. This would be the same even if he was a woman.

There's a limited pool of people who would be willing to embark on a relationship in that situation.

You've said yourself too @WouldYouHaveAproblem that you personally would have a problem with a relationship like this that a future partner has with another woman.

You've also admitted you haven't seen him in a relationship with another woman. Think about that, how would that make you feel, honestly? He gets another girlfriend and he does stop his relationship with you to an extent. You no longer have the intimate relationship, he no longer texts you every day, no more hugs and kisses in texts. He has in jokes with her and shows her more intimacy. How does that make you feel?

I’m married and my best friend is single. When I stay with her I sleep in her bed and when she’s at ours I’m curled up with her on the sofa while my husband sits in the armchair. We’re very tactile though generally not like that with other people.
My husband is my priority if I had to choose but thankfully I don’t have to choose and he understands our bond. I’ve had many other people remark on our closeness and whether he “minds” but I have enough emotional energy for both of them. Things might change slightly when she meets someone but we’ll see.

I suspect that if he did start seeing someone and she posted about it on here, we'd tell her this was going either nowhere, or nowhere she'd like. That's certainly how I feel.

@AllOfUsAreDead

You've said yourself too *@WouldYouHaveAproblem* that you personally would have a problem with a relationship like this that a future partner has with another woman.

You've also admitted you haven't seen him in a relationship with another woman. Think about that, how would that make you feel, honestly? He gets another girlfriend and he does stop his relationship with you to an extent. You no longer have the intimate relationship, he no longer texts you every day, no more hugs and kisses in texts. He has in jokes with her and shows her more intimacy. How does that make you feel?

These are all good points and I have considered how I'll feel when he meets someone. I genuinely want him to be happy so I would never be a blocker though I would obviously miss the frequency of contact. I personally think that what will happen is that our friendship will go through a hiatus (less frequent contact) and then settle back into a less intimate groove.

I suppose a pertinent question is: why are you thinking about it?

@DrSbaitso

I suspect that if he did start seeing someone and she posted about it on here, we'd tell her this was going either nowhere, or nowhere she'd like. That's certainly how I feel.

This is interesting!

@DrSbaitso

I suppose a pertinent question is: why are you thinking about it?

Just because we were discussing it yesterday and we disagreed...

What if he never comes back though? Your friendship just dies out and you're left with nothing once he's hit a girlfriend and then possibly a wife? You can't assume you will have him as a friend in any circumstances, he may just forget about you completely.

@ChristmasFluff

I had an extremely close gay male friend - very similar to what you are describing, OP, but without any possibility of there ever being a partnership between us.

However, what both of us eventually realised was that we were putting the other in the role of 'partner'anyway - and that doesn't leave a vacancy to fill.

The real danger to your future relationships is that it's hard to create emotional intimacy with a new person, when you are unwilling to ease up on a commitment to another.

Usually friendships are able to navigate that, and recognise that the new partner becomes the 'go to' in certain aspects. This doesn't feel like the case here and as a PP says, it probably isn't a coincidence that neither of you have had a relationship in that time - same happened with me and my friend.

When your emotional needs are being met fully by one other person, then there's no driver to find another partner - you are more looking for a shag on the side. This would be the same even if he was a woman.

There's a limited pool of people who would be willing to embark on a relationship in that situation.

I think that encapsulates my question up the thread, really — is it more than coincidence that neither the OP nor her friend have been seeing anyone during the two years this friendship has been going on?

I think the situation you outline is perfectly possible.

Being totally honest I wouldn't like it and wouldn't get with a man who told me his female friend friendship who he sent hugs and kisses too was non negotiable.

I've had a boyfriend before with a circle of female friends. All of them, bar one, became my friends too. I was included in their plans and they were absolutely lovely to me. The one who purposely excluded me and was actively mean on occasions was dropped. Then I found out they had a thing that didn't go to full sex but might as well had which explained her behaviour. I split with that boyfriend.

So my stance on female friendships are (whether it's fair or not) if they don't want to include me in the friendship then I don't want the relationship.

I'm close to a male friend. We go out for dinner and drinks, we chat a lot, we're very close at times and have been friends since the teen years. When he's in a relationship I mostly see him with whoever his gf is at the time and join in with them and make friends with her. Our friendship cools because I'm not the main woman in his life and I wouldn't expect to be. When I'm in a relationship again my friend makes friends with my dp at the time and we all get on and do things as a 3 or a 4 but the friendship changes. Again neither of us take offense to this or try to insert ourselves as a main person in the others life.

@AllOfUsAreDead

What if he never comes back though? Your friendship just dies out and you're left with nothing once he's hit a girlfriend and then possibly a wife? You can't assume you will have him as a friend in any circumstances, he may just forget about you completely.

I have no doubt that I will always be friends with him (on some level). And I'm not basing that on what he's told me but having observed how he responds to other people in his life and the amount of time and energy he gives to people he cares about. He's demonstrated strong values and being a man of his word.

From your last update OP you're in emotional relationship territory. You have formed an unhealthy attachment to this man. I have friends from primary school and I wouldn't make such a claim. They could move to Australia and I'd never see them again but be happy for their new life ect.

This friendship might be holding you back from dating and being in a real relationship.