To think that if a pay-by-the-mile Road tax is introduced, we won’t want to buy electric cars?

[ThoseFestiveLights]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/04/uk-road-pricing-transport-committee-mps-electric-shift

The government is going to lose millions in fuel duty with the roll out of electric cars, so is proposing recouping this through more complex road taxing.

I suppose I hadn’t thought of this angle, but it makes sense for the government to do something. However, I was tempted to buy an electric car because of the fuel savings. This has put me off.

AIBU to think that if the burden of paying for roads falls across all motorists, then people will just stick to cheaper, petrol cars for now and not invest in electric ones?

I presume they'd go after the vehicles that pollute the most by mile, though?

Or at least alter the multiplier - lowest bands x 1 per mile, next x 1.5 etc.

The government supposedly want everyone to have an electric car but are not only making them really expensive but now this?!! It’s just crazy. We were considering one for next year but will have to weigh up the savings and see if it actually benefits us. I’m all for saving the planet but I have to put myself and my family first and if I can’t afford to do it, then I won’t.

This has made us out of buying one u tip next year, Ora t least until the details are clear.

I want to do my bit, but family budget comes first.

I’d be happy to pay. Pay for our existing car. Will replace with electric when needed but wouldn’t expect to pay less. I’ll still be using the roads and it has to be paid for somehow.

I suppose if they have to recoup the same
Money from consumers @thecatsthecats then it will basically be similar for everyone in the end.

Charging per mile would require colossal infrastructure - in implementing and to maintain it.
It's yet another way to penalise those of us who prefer not to live in already overcrowded places.
We don't have the money to buy an electric car anyway - we in banger territory.

Would it @daimbarsatemydogsbone? Surely it would not be any more complex than smart meters?

I'm not sure how they'd work this out! I can't imagine the systems / infrastructure required. Who does the charging, how is it charged, who checks journey lengths / times, how does it work when travelling for work / medical appointments etc. I just can't imagine it being implemented in a way that would work!

To be honest I don't think we have the infrastructure for electric cars either, so until they sort that out I'll stick with my diesel!

Surely the tax take on the extra electricity you would need to run an electric car would cover the loss of fuel duty ?

Or am I being dim ?

Mind you, given a (modest) 10% increase in electric cars would need a massive investment in distribution infrastructure* and (looks out of window ...) that ain't happening, I would not really pay much attention to anything being said about electric cars, and look at what is being done.

Given electric cars are almost equally efficient under all loads, I propose a speed tax. The faster you go, the more you pay. It would use the same infrastructure you'd use for mileage-pricing too.

*That isn't next door putting a charging point in, by the way ...

Isn’t that article saying that road tax per mile would be for all types of cars. It would still affect you if you have a petrol or diesel car. It’s just that the switch to per mile taxation needs to happen now that electric car use is being encouraged/fuelled vehicles discouraged.

I agree with it. We have an electric vehicle already.

It wouldn’t be entirely straightforward when it comes to infrastructure.

How do you track miles travelled? If you use an app then what happens when you have no phone signal, or you don’t have a smart phone? Or you run out of battery or simply decided not to turn the thing on? How do we capture that and ensure people are still charged?

If you use a black box like insurance companies - who pays for that? Who fits it? What happens when it goes wrong? Who pays for repairs?

It’s far simpler to keep a flat rate based on emissions and just raise it for everyone regardless of miles driven.

@NoSquirrels

Isn’t that article saying that road tax per mile would be for all types of cars. It would still affect you if you have a petrol or diesel car. It’s just that the switch to per mile taxation needs to happen now that electric car use is being encouraged/fuelled vehicles discouraged.

I agree with it. We have an electric vehicle already.

Exactly - but how are they going to monitor how many miles I do in my diesel old banger?

Surely you’ll still have fuel savings with an electric car? I’ve got a Nissan Leaf e+ and I’m paying ~£1.40 / 100 miles. An ICE car will never get that!

Even if/when they do bring in road charging, you’ll be paying that on top of fuel, and car tax.

I would have thought it would be extremely easy to track - your mileage is recorded at each MOT so easily charged from year to year. I don't think any infrastructure is required at all?

(For cars less than three years old that don't require MOTs there would have to be a different system I admit)

Are they fucking idiots or what? They want people to work till they are old but don't want to make it easily accessible to work till your old I live in an area with very few buses and the ones we do have are expensive and go the wrong way there are no local jobs so unless the government want to pay benefits for longer they need to come up with a better solution than only rich people can drive poor people can walk

I’m not sure why any motorist thinks that the ‘burden of paying for roads’ shouldn’t fall to them.

You use the roads. You pay for the infrastructure and upkeep. Your car is not causing less wear and tear because it’s electric.

Can't ever see us being able to afford an electric car, already drive a 1 litre car, so can't do a lot more. And live in a small house in the middle of the countryside with no public transport at all. Do about 15,000 miles a year with school runs, shopping, caring for elderly relatives. The thought of per mile tax terrifies me.

@NoSquirrels

I’m not sure why any motorist thinks that the ‘burden of paying for roads’ shouldn’t fall to them.

You use the roads. You pay for the infrastructure and upkeep. Your car is not causing less wear and tear because it’s electric.

This

I am still wondering how they are going to generate the massive extra electricity required to charge millions of electric cars - given that we are already struggling with decommissioned (old) or unaffordable (new) nuclear plants, unreliable wind energy, and doubtful gas/oil supplies for power stations.
The problem of taxing such vehicles pales into insignificance.

Via MOT certificate surely? No need for complex monitoring, they have the info already. Makes sense that those who use the roads the most, pay the most. How polluting your vehicle is is factored in too, so yes, you might pay more if you are heavy user in electric vehicle, but still less than the equivalent petrol/diesel.

Surely if you have a petrol car you are paying both fuel duty and the pay-per-mile road tax though?

I think it makes perfect sense. Where else is the money supposed to come from?

Well lets look at it from the Government's perspective

They currently get 57p fuel duty per litre of petrol sold plus VAT of another 25-30p on the overall sale per litre so they need to replenish this money somehow. So for a 100 mile journey using say 10 litres they would get £8-9 in duty and VAT.

Plus they get vehicle excise duty of several hundred pounds per car each year. This all contributes to everything that governbment does - roads, public transport, schools, hospitals, defence etc etc etc.

Currently they would get a maybe £1.50-2 VAT per electric car charge so they need to make this up somehow.

Electirc car owners need to pay more or we will all have to pay more income tax

How do you track miles travelled?

You'd be amazed how many ANPR cameras there are around ...

@summertimerolls

I would have thought it would be extremely easy to track - your mileage is recorded at each MOT so easily charged from year to year. I don't think any infrastructure is required at all?

(For cars less than three years old that don't require MOTs there would have to be a different system I admit)

There is already a thriving "industry" in resetting car mileage - I'd imagine it would greatly expand in this case. It's too easy to fake.

"Using the latest equipment and specially trained mobile technicians we can discreetly reset your mileage to any number you require."

Mileage Adjustment from £50

www.mileageadjustment.co.uk/mileage-adjustment/about-mileage-correction/

Surely paying per mile would mean we all have to be tracked on our journeys??
Whilst I like the black box system for new drivers. I’m not sure most would be happy with the government doing it constantly.

The alternative would be block road tax is x amount like it used to be (I’m talking years ago). Which Is much easier to implement as it just goes with the system we already have.