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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is child neglect?

96 replies

Ataloss23 · 03/02/2022 19:40

I don't want to go too much into the ins and outs as its very outing, but im hoping to get some opinions.

A good friend of mine is having a really bad time in life. They have previously had issues with drink - prior to having children - which I believed was under control. This week their drinking in the evening became even more apparent and I'm aware over the past 3 days they have been blackout drunk all day, while in charge of two young toddlers. Their rationale is that there is another relative in the house who can care for the children. This relative is not a parent.

I've tried to support them, offering to take the children for a few nights so they can pull themselves together but this was rejected. I've been supportive through all of their ups and downs, but I just cant support this. I have phoned SS once tonight to ask for anonymous advice, to which they advised, among other things, that child protection is everyone's responsibility and that so very true, it's just so hard to do this to them.

My friend is adament that what they are doing is okay as there is another adult present. Its almost making me think that I'M the one who is being unreasonable as I don't drink very often.

I love them very much, and I love their children as if they were my own, but I'm willing to have them hate me and lose our friendship if it means I know the kids are safe.

YABU — It IS okay to drink excessively around your children if there is another adult present

YANBU - You shouldn't drink excessively while around your children

OP posts:
Suzanne999 · 03/02/2022 21:01

You’re right to report.
Children shouldn’t see a parent blind drunk as well as the safety aspect. I found my alcoholic ex h was very careless with lit cigarettes, lighters etc..
I checked online to see if there’s a law about being drunk in charge of a child —- seems it only applies in a public place.

sadpapercourtesan · 03/02/2022 21:03

That's just not true. A parent regularly getting blind drunk and passing out in front of her children is going to be seen as a safeguarding concern, no matter who else is in the house. Whether or not it triggers an intervention will depend on the area and how appallingly overstretched the resources are - but nobody in their right mind, social worker or otherwise, would say it's not a safeguarding concern for them to see their mother in that state on a regular basis.

EmpressCixi · 03/02/2022 21:03

@sadpapercourtesan
Asking questions isn’t being judgemental. You saying I’m making a nasty dig, is fucking judgemental. So kindly FTHFYB.

Original poster
Ataloss23 · 03/02/2022 21:03

@blue4you sorry, my interpretation of blackout drunk is that the person has 'blacked out memories' as in can't remember anything while drunk. They have admitted to drinking a bottle of vodka each day for the past few days, which I would consider excessive. Really sorry for your loss and for your experiences after, it sounds very traumatic and I'm sorry if this has brought anything back up.

@empressCixi also really sorry if this is bringing any past experiences for you. I don't recall saying I said I wouldn't report if I had the kids. If any of my posts have indicated that, that is not the case. I offered to take the kids so that they were away from it all. This was when I first found out about them drinking around the kids and wanting to offer any support I could think of. The idea of SS involvement has only come about after days and days of continuous non stop drinking as I cannot support or enable this behaviours, but I also can't ignore it

OP posts:
EmpressCixi · 03/02/2022 21:05

being drunk in charge of a child

The grandparent is in charge and not drunk?

sadpapercourtesan · 03/02/2022 21:05

[quote EmpressCixi]@sadpapercourtesan
Asking questions isn’t being judgemental. You saying I’m making a nasty dig, is fucking judgemental. So kindly FTHFYB.[/quote]
You weren't "just asking questions" at all. You were being nasty, and you know it. You pretty much accused OP of being complicit in the neglect - which she isn't.

EmpressCixi · 03/02/2022 21:06

@Ataloss23
I’m all for you reporting to SS. I just don’t think it will lead to any changes in their behaviour or any intervention as a competent adult is in charge of the children. If anything, it may cause further grief for the children as they are bound to be accused of grassing on their parents.

EmpressCixi · 03/02/2022 21:08

@sadpapercourtesan
Go pick on someone you own size, I’m the Empress you silly Courtesan.

sadpapercourtesan · 03/02/2022 21:09

[quote EmpressCixi]@sadpapercourtesan
Go pick on someone you own size, I’m the Empress you silly Courtesan.[/quote]
Ah, I see. You're as mad as a box of frogs. I'll leave you to it then Grin

CoastalWave · 03/02/2022 21:10

I'm a little confused. You say 'this parent is not a relative' but in fact, it's the child's grandparent?

Let's be honest - pretty shit all round, but if it's their grandparent are THEY not looking after the kids?

Or is grandparent completely irresponsible too?

What relation are you to these people?

Liveforyourself · 03/02/2022 21:10

@Blue4YOU so sorry to hear about your ordeal. My heart goes out to you . Hope you are staying strong and trusting your instincts about when and why your child needs support.

Mummytobe93 · 03/02/2022 21:12

Please report it @Ataloss23

No child deserves to grow up in such environment.

Their well-being can’t rely on one competent adult who can be out of the picture at any given time, and then the kids are at risk of harm by their parents.

caringcarer · 03/02/2022 21:12

Check on kids first thing in morning if their parents are not up getting them breakfast and dressed, report. We are all responsible for children being safe. The grandparent should be stepping in more to look after the children. Parents are a disgrace. They need to get a grip and think of their children, who must be terrified and not understand why Mummy and Daddy are not taking them to nursery.

scrivette · 03/02/2022 21:13

You are right to be concerned. If you report it to your local Councils MASH team in the morning they will consider the referral.

It may be that they want to work with the parent and want to help to support them get out of the cycle, whilst ensuring that the children are being kept safe and cared for.

Reporting is absolutely the right thing to do.

Juniper68 · 03/02/2022 21:18

@Ataloss23

I've got to do it. Just tried to phone there but it's out of hours so the phone was ringing through. I don't believe the kids are in any immediate danger this evening. If anything I think they are all asleep right now. I will phone in the morning.

I'm prepared for them to hate me, I am, but it doesn't make it any less difficult. My fear is just never seeing those kids again, they mean so much to me.

I had to do similar a long time ago. The friend's dh was the problem. He was abusive too. He's exdh and she's still a good friend.
kateg27 · 03/02/2022 21:18

I'm a family safeguarding officer with the substance misuse team in my city. I'm with @CrinklyCraggy, the other adult will be the protective factor and as long as the children are being cared for and well looked after; then unfortunately social care won't be able to do much.

Original poster
Ataloss23 · 03/02/2022 21:19

@coastalwave sorry, I don't know how to reply to comments properly. Someone had asked I was a relative to the person and I was saying I was not, but consider them my family. The grandparent is my friends parent, they all live together. The grandparent is competent as I mentioned in a other post, but has taken a dislike to one of the children and I worry about what would happen if that child needed support. My friend has complained that the grandparent ignores this one child, refusing to hug or show any affection. It's difficult to go into things without explaining my friends back story, but it's not appropriate for me to do so as it may be outing for them. My concern is also around this child's emotional needs not being met if the parent is too inebriated.

Just to confirm. I will be phoning SS in the morning. I don't feel as if it is an immediate emergency tonight as everyone is sleeping I believe.

OP posts:
Tanith · 03/02/2022 21:22

"that's my worry, that it won't be seen as an issue as there is a competent adult in the house. And they don't end up getting the help they need as a result."

You are right to report, though it's a hard thing to do and not surprising you are questioning it.

What SS will do with your report isn't your responsibility. Your responsibility is to let them know what's happening so they can make the decision.

Try and ignore the posters who are telling you what they think might happen. You do the right thing and report, then you know you've done all you can for those children.

Dunelmer · 03/02/2022 21:23

I grew up in a similar environment.

Grandmother powerless around lying parents who drank themselves into the abyss every night. She was probably too ashamed to call SS for her own daughter - and one always wants to see the best in people, especially your own child.

Alcoholic parents often hide it well. Often have jobs. Just the nightly obliteration is seen by the children. I remember my mother being blackout drunk every night.

Now I sit with my own kids and wine gums scare me.

Report it. You'll be saving a child from the abyss. If this was heroin you'd report without question, but the impacts of alcohol on thos surrounding is often just as severe.

Call SS.

Twillow · 03/02/2022 21:24

Is the grandparent male or female? What are their motivations behind not wanting this reported?

Toddlerteaplease · 03/02/2022 21:25

@RedChapter

I'd say the other adult isn't doing enough to protect the children from their mum being in that state at home with them, so you do need to step in and do something. You can't let this continue, it's damaging to children to live in that environment.
This!
kateg27 · 03/02/2022 21:25

@Dunelmer in my car professional experience the children who's parents are alcoholics suffer more. It's so sad

EmpressCixi · 03/02/2022 21:26

@sadpapercourtesan
You're as mad as a box of frogs.

Or am I? Seems you have accused me of what you have done....Nasty judgemental statements.

NoJaffaCakesAreKeptInThisVan · 03/02/2022 21:30

“I'm a family safeguarding officer with the substance misuse team in my city. I'm with @CrinklyCraggy, the other adult will be the protective factor and as long as the children are being cared for and well looked after; then unfortunately social care won't be able to do much.”

I had this exact reaction from SS not long ago when I called them to ask for help with my own family situation. The response I got was basically, if the kids are ok we’re not interested. I was the responsible adult…maybe if I’d just upped and left we’d have got the help we needed 😕

FusionChefGeoff · 03/02/2022 21:30

Does your friend admit there's a problem / that their drinking is abnormal or not? Do you know if they got help to stop before or if they did it off their own back?? Don't know if it's worth trying to get them some help from AA - but that would only work if they admit there's a problem of course.