To think this rebate announced today is a total con

[Viviennemary]

So this so called rebate has to be paid back. It isnt exactly a rebate then is it?

National insurance scrap so when u go to hospital you pay , bet you’d soon be moaning about that one

Why should we be forced to bail out the NHS due to government failings ??

I'm pretty sure people will be able to afford £3.33 per month to repay the loan.

The you don't know the meaning of poverty. What a stupid, insensitive and tone deaf comment.

@BuickMcKane

I'm pretty sure people will be able to afford £3.33 per month to repay the loan.

The you don't know the meaning of poverty. What a stupid, insensitive and tone deaf comment.

I agree, some people might struggle with this And even those who don’t might not want this loan and/or a rebate of any kind

@mytwocats

National insurance scrap so when u go to hospital you pay , bet you’d soon be moaning about that one

The NI rise will raise about 10billion in revenue.

The government has just written off 9billion due to fucking up buying PPE.

So what are we paying for exactly?

I hate to agree with a tory, but Peter Bone had it right. The tories are raising taxes only to give it back through stupid, inefficient schemes like this.

@mytwocats

Honestly! The government offers some sort of help & all you do is moan, they didn’t have to do anything. Think yourselves lucky, what other country is doing this? just b grateful for once!

But there are a good majority on this thread alone who don't need or want it! So why not target it better through Universal Credit or a voucher scheme for example and not council tax bands which do not allow for lower income families living in inflated price social housing for example in London. Many of the older and some new build properties are inadequate in terms of efficient energy use. The housing providers will Only do the minimum required to maintain them. If not UC then could the government not issue vouchers to household to offset their bills and these vouchers are only repayable if they are used.?

Even if you don want it, I'd take it in the hope it will get written off down the line when it becomes apparent that prices aren't going back down or we get a new pm who wants to win some favour!
If my bill goes up by £200 every month I'm not sure how £200 off the yearly total helps. A year off paying my council tax would be better

I'll take my £200 even though I don't want it and I'll save it for DS as he's one of those likely to get stitched up by this scheme. He was a student but has been back home since his course ended applying for career jobs whilst doing a temporary job. He will no doubt miss out on the £200 as he'll either be living here or in a HMO when the money us credited but no doubt will have his own electricity bill by the time they take the money back. As if the young haven't been stitched up enough already with student loans and rising rents/house prices. There will be many students in the same position.

I don't even bloody want it! Don't need it, don't want it, not interested, but is there any info on opting out? Not that I can find!

The facts are that this is being forced on people. Not everyone wants it and it's not the best way to do it for everyone. It also does not fix the massive issue that the poorest and those that need support the most ie people with disabilities are going to be hit hardest by this.

Next year when they start clawing this money back, the energy companies will be inundated with people asking why £40 has been added to their bill. Many people won't understand how this works.

What I don't understand, perhaps I'm thick, is why the standing charge has gone up so much. This means that in reality you can only reduce your bill by so much because even if you turn your heating off and use zero gas you're still going to be paying loads. I thought the standing charge was for infrastructure/providing a service and the actual gas charge was what you used. Surely only the 'what you use' charge should have gone up? can anyone explain?

Ugh how utterly bizarre not to have an opt-out scheme. Our energy bills could go up by 100% or more and we still wouldn't need the money. Surely if it just went to those who would actually benefit from it, it could maybe even be given without having to be repaid, instead of however much being spent on people who don't want or need it, then everyone being forced to repay it. It's a joke.

They ought to realise that the chances of receiving it back once it is given out to reluctant borrowers is probably nil because there would be far too many hoops to jump through to prove that a forcibly imposed loan is repayable.

@PreparationPreparationPrep If it was done through UC I wouldn't receive it and I will definitely be needing it, as will most of the people I know. There wont be many people building up credit through summer like usual so any extra help is more than welcome.

The SNP (and a slightly resurged Conservative Party) in Scotland are a good example of what can happen when regions are taken for granted.

Agreed with one minor correction that Scotland is a country

Also Westminster didn't see fit to give the devolved govts a "heads up" ahead of this nonsense so they could decide how they were going to proceed.

@mytwocats are you Rishis mum?!

This plan is both bonkers and pathetic! Do you genuinely believe "there's no money" for basic services and properly supporting the economy cos if so you're naive. There have been numerous tax cuts for the wealthy, the money is FOUND for what this govt wants to spend on - and screw the ordinary people in their view!! He's just given bankers a HUGE tax cut!

Political choices.

Yep! Nothing to do with what the country can actually afford - and needs for a healthy economy!

The government has just written off 9billion due to fucking up buying PPE

So what are we paying for exactly

And yes crappy stupid decisions like this!

Gah now I'm annoyed cos I can't remember his name - who was that MP who KEPT cocking up in ways costing millions? - that too although I think it pales into insignificance with recent nonsense but it's bugging me I

It’s great they are putting something in place for those who need it

Please tell me how I access help and how much - in Scotland, even if I were England I still wouldn't be certain seeing I don't pay council tax (except water as water still nationalised up here) and I'm on a prepay meter which I didn't choose nor do I need to be but I've been unable to switch due to ridiculous equipment/switching issues.

@userxx that's the epitome of an "I'm alright jack" post your first post - what about the MILLIONS of households this will plunge into poverty? Have some compassion!! If it were done even partially through the benefits system at least it would be properly reaching those who need it most.

This is just to take the sting out of it in the most targeted way possible.

How is even this part true? His "solution" all but ignores the poorest!!

Frankly what SHOULD happen which will never happen under tories is renationalise it all!

This is no different to bailing out the banks and making private debt public debt. Literally in this case.
Maybe develop some critical thinking skills.

Exactly

And the knock on effects will be huge too as people won't only cut down on luxury spending but on basics spending too, plus all businesses are getting hit with this price rise too - it's an economic disaster that didn't need to happen!

And overall - if we can not afford to pay for even essentials, our economy will shrink further. It absolutely is the government's job to try to address that.

Spot on!!

I'm pretty sure people will be able to afford £3.33 per month to repay the loan.

1 not everyone will

2 this loan doesn't even fully cover the price hike! So how are the poorest meant to find the money for that?

The you don't know the meaning of poverty. What a stupid, insensitive and tone deaf comment.

Agreed!

And just on the news for those with privatised water - those prices going up too ffs!

Council tax is a Fucking stupid way of dealing with this!!!

Furlough was not about 'people' as individuals, it was necessary to prevent the nation's economy from imploding.

Shame billions (of taxpayer) money was lost to fraud. And then so casually written off by Rishi Twelve Homes Sunak.

@Graphista I'm alight jack - you taking the piss ? What about the millions of people who are potentially facing freezing to death in the coming winter. Would you prefer the scheme isn't in place or only for people who receive UC ?

I heard someone on radio 4 yesterday saying that people who receive council tax support won't be eligible for the rebate, but will be able to apply for a discretionary payment from their local council instead.

Ffs.

Which is basically your council judging your story and your bank statements and deciding if you are worthy. You can’t just say it’s unaffordable pay gas bill. Not as simple as filling in form and cheque in the post.

Keep hearing people on benefits getting loads of help.. where? I’m getting £200 loan have pay back. So that’s nothing in reality. Warm home discount scheme already been maxed out only every has limited amount each company can give. Since I don’t have enough income pay council tax I not be getting that back either.

The £200 is not really a loan to each household where the household must pay it back. The best way to look at it is that all electricity bills will be reduced by £200 in October 2022. From April 2023, all electricity bills will be increased by £40 a year for five years. The government is lending the money to the energy companies who will have to pay back what they borrow.

Somebody who gets a house for the first time after April 2023 will not benefit from the £200 discount, but will still have to pay the extra £40 on their bills each year up to and including April 2027

So I guess on a similar vein, if a couple who currently live together get the £200, and then they split up, they both pay back £200 each (Assuming they then live alone)? But two single people (living alone) now who both get the £200 and then move in together will only pay back £200, not £400?

Exactly

I'll take my £200 even though I don't want it and I'll save it for DS as he's one of those likely to get stitched up by this scheme. He was a student but has been back home since his course ended applying for career jobs whilst doing a temporary job. He will no doubt miss out on the £200 as he'll either be living here or in a HMO when the money us credited but no doubt will have his own electricity bill by the time they take the money back. As if the young haven't been stitched up enough already with student loans and rising rents/house prices. There will be many students in the same position.

Exactly

The exact mechanics of how the scheme will operate are not yet finalised, except that it will apply to electricity bills only (as hardly any households lack electricity, but many more lack gas). It could well be a one-off £200 credit to bills in October and £3.33 extra per month from April 2023 for credit customers, and I haven't the foggiest how it may work for pre-payment customers.

I just want to re-emphasise that this is an adjustment to electricity bills. You will not be in debt (solely) due to this. You will not owe anybody anything due to this.

Some councils don't give 100% off the bill for people on benefits, even the poorest. Some only offer a discount.

So the council tax rebate will definitely help many. (So long as it's funded by national government, rather than expecting already cash strapped councils to find make more cuts to public services to pay for it).

@SpittinKitten

I heard someone on radio 4 yesterday saying that people who receive council tax support won't be eligible for the rebate, but will be able to apply for a discretionary payment from their local council instead.

Ffs.

Oh! I wrote my last post before seeing this.

Well I take it back. The council tax rebate evidently won't after all help so many in need.

@userxx I was referring to your post :

I'll take the £200 in October and have some credit for the winter months, I'm happy to pay back £40 per year for 5 years. £3.33 per month won't break the bank.

Which yes did come across as if YOU were unaware/didn't care about those much worse off.

Would you prefer the scheme isn't in place or only for people who receive UC ?

I would prefer Rishi and the rest of this govt had the sense and the balls to tell the energy companies to get tae fuck!!

Just as France and others have pretty much done!!

I heard someone on radio 4 yesterday saying that people who receive council tax support won't be eligible for the rebate, but will be able to apply for a discretionary payment from their local council instead

There is NO clarity on this though I've been looking!

Which is basically your council judging your story and your bank statements and deciding if you are worthy.

I'm also betting the help available will be finite and it'll be "first come first served" bollocks

So the council tax rebate will definitely help many.

But not everyone and the worst off are the ones gonna find it hardest to GET help

Somebody who gets a house for the first time after April 2023 will not benefit from the £200 discount, but will still have to pay the extra £40 on their bills each year up to and including April 2027

How on earth have they dressed this up as "help"?

In the same way that I hope there is an opt out, I also hope there is a way of not billing those who haven't benefited from it. It will mostly be the young, in their first homes, who will be hit by this.

@SJFarter

Somebody who gets a house for the first time after April 2023 will not benefit from the £200 discount, but will still have to pay the extra £40 on their bills each year up to and including April 2027

How on earth have they dressed this up as "help"?

In the same way that I hope there is an opt out, I also hope there is a way of not billing those who haven't benefited from it. It will mostly be the young, in their first homes, who will be hit by this.

It's what governments (be they Lab, Con, or coalition) have been doing for years with the national finances. Raise too little tax so they have to borrow to spend the money that benefits the current voters, and future generations who did not benefit have to pay for it.

The whole thing is bonkers. There are a lot of comfortably off folk living in band d houses. And probably the other bands too.

@Viviennemary

The whole thing is bonkers. There are a lot of comfortably off folk living in band d houses. And probably the other bands too.

These two schemes are possibly the very worst ways to help people who are struggling. a: its no where nr enough for people struggling b: hands money to the majority, who don't need it, so i can only think this a bribe for the relatively well off to keep voting tory. c: keeps investment funds and fossil fuel companies happy.

Appreciate the pension funds issue but a windfall tax on around 50% of the extra they have made is reasonable.

On banded help, absolutely, i'm in a C property, no way do i need it.