To think this rebate announced today is a total con

[Viviennemary]

So this so called rebate has to be paid back. It isnt exactly a rebate then is it?

My electricity company can't even get my name right despite phone calls and two copies of deed poll so I wouldn't hold out much hope of them getting this right. Can you imagine when you move house or all the couples splitting up trying to get finances sorted as to what is owed, I reckon it will all go pear shaped and end up another write off like the billions on PPE!

What do you expect the government to do, pay your energy bills?

Literally no one on this thread has said that. The majority have said they'd rather opt out of this loan.

The £200 is not really a loan to each household where the household must pay it back. The best way to look at it is that all electricity bills will be reduced by £200 in October 2022. From April 2023, all electricity bills will be increased by £40 a year for five years. The government is lending the money to the energy companies who will have to pay back what they borrow.

Somebody who gets a house for the first time after April 2023 will not benefit from the £200 discount, but will still have to pay the extra £40 on their bills each year up to and including April 2027

So I guess on a similar vein, if a couple who currently live together get the £200, and then they split up, they both pay back £200 each (Assuming they then live alone)?
But two single people (living alone) now who both get the £200 and then move in together will only pay back £200, not £400?

I am not hard up and don't need £200 towards my fuel bill. Znd iv ZI was strugglinb on z los wzge then £200 woulfnt mzke z fifference on z los wage dith rapidly esczlating prices. Its z fubbixh idez.

I was busy correcting that. anyway a measly £200 won't make much difference to people on a low wage struggling with rapidly escalating costs. It's a poor show all round.

Surely normally you have to sign for a loan. Where do I have to sign for this one I don't want? I'd rather just pay my bills, even if higher. I don't see how it can be legal? Am I missing something here?

The idea is to target lower income families

Except the proposed help for lower income households is very vague and uncertain!

They're bailing out energy companies and trying to make out they're doing consumers a favour.

But then that's what I and others that understand what the tories are like know this is their priority

Just to throw another spanner in the works - is anyone on thread aware that the energy companies said this was only the 1st of 2 price hikes? That there's likely to be another next April too? - read in a business journal a few weeks back but can't remember which one annoyingly

High prices remaining for 2-3 years

How would a council tax rebate work for those getting council tax support?

This was my immediate question. And I've not seen a satisfactory answer yet!

I believe councils also have extra funds to distribute to those struggling

The info on this is EXTREMELY vague and not at all reassuring!

It’s feels very much like old workhouse handouts come to a panel, we will judge your story how well we think you should be coping and check bank systems to for what you may or may not have been buying.

This is my fear! Not because I'm profligate but because I don't trust councils to make these (moral!) judgments

If it's £200 off your bill, how will people on pre-pay meters receive that? They're usually the lowest income households too

This also applies to me

Sunak is probably unaware such things exist, and therefore hasn’t considered them.

Oh he knows!

He just DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT!!

And it's not like they didn't know this was coming either!!

What do you expect the government to do, pay your energy bills?

Seriously?

How about GOVERN

Which includes MANAGING THE ECONOMY and not pulling crap like brexit and huge tax breaks for the wealthy while increasing levels of poverty!

It would be better to ensure people use energy more efficiently and insulate homes.

Do you REALLY think the poorest of us don't ALREADY do this as far as we're able?

I'm in Scotland I haven't had my ch on all winter because of this! I use as little energy as possible - that includes ALREADY doing as little as possible in my own home that uses energy from laundry to bathing to heating to cooking...

There's fuck all else I can do to cut back that wouldn't involve me going hungry or becoming ill from lack of heat!!

Plus I like many others on thread who are kind and thoughtful enough to recognise they aren't the ones that need the help - I would rather the help went to those who DO need it and not unnecessarily to those who don't!

Good grief!!!

Yes to your last paragraph, I'd rather it went where needed.

It reminds me of when Peter Stringfellow phoned up to hand back his winter fuel allowance and they wouldn't/couldn't let him do it. So he donated it to charity. Which was great, but really???

I don't see why, currently having no debts (we rent, no credit cards, decent salaries, got myself out of the shit a few years ago), I have to take one on that I haven't agreed to.

I read that the rebate/loan/discount is going to be in the form of money being deducted from council tax on bands A - D (why only them?!). I immediately thought, 'Therefore we can expect a council tax hike of around £150 next year'. They give it to you so they can promptly take it away again.

I immediately thought, 'Therefore we can expect a council tax hike of around £150 next year'. They give it to you so they can promptly take it away again.

This is what a lot of people seem to be thinking!

It's a bloody farce all round!

The energy loan thing is ridiculous. £200 off over a year is barely anything in the context of the price crisis. Repaying at £3.33 a month is barely going to be noticeable, I don't have a problem with that. But it's pointless. By that point prices will be double what they are now and that £200 'discount' will be a cold (pun intended) and distant memory.

@GnomeyGnome

Whilst I agree the £200 isn't going to stretch very far and creates a bigger problem down the line I thought the rebate part was the £150 for council tax bands a-d. This, as far as I'm aware, won't need to be paid back.

This whole situation is very worrying though.

Which is another con because people living in social housing built later than the 1990s in the southeast are instantly in the highest council tax bands whilst housing significantly larger directly opposite is in the lower ones just because they existed at a time of vastly lower house prices. And just because a crappy council flat in outer London cost more than the same in another part of the country, that doesn't mean the inhabitants are any more able to afford the bills when they're on the same income.

It's all bullshit, really.

This shambles is cast iron proof the Tories don't have a single brain cell between them.

@saleorbouy

What do you expect the government to do, pay your energy bills? The government aren't a bank, all their money is derived from the population of tax payers so if it's handed out for utility bills it won't be spent on health, social care or education. High energy prices are a long term issue and will not be fixed by short term handouts. It would be better to ensure people use energy more efficiently and insulate homes. I understand keeping warm, cooking and paying bills is a big issue for everyone but it's nieve to think the government can just hand out cash ad-infinitum to see us through. This needs a much better approach to a very big long term issue.

The amount they'll be paying out is the same as they'll be getting from the extra taxes they'll get in from the price increases. They're giving us Fuck All

I am not an expert on council tax bands but I assume that lots of people in London and other expensive areas will not get a rebate even though they might be struggling? I don’t think these kind of things should be tied to the value of property as you then get some anomalous results.

And just because a crappy council flat in outer London cost more than the same in another part of the country, that doesn't mean the inhabitants are any more able to afford the bills when they're on the same income

Exactly!

Council tax banding is an outdated disastrous mess!

This shambles is cast iron proof the Tories don't have a single brain cell between them.

Don't be fooled!

They're doing EXACTLY what they want and believe in - punishing the poor (and hoping some of us die off and are no longer a burden) and lining their pockets and keeping donors happy!

I don’t think these kind of things should be tied to the value of property as you then get some anomalous results.

It's a weird fucked up decision

When you borrow money you are indebted to them for as long as it takes to repay. I have no desire to be indebted to this government, I don't trust them enough to give them any reason to have me indebted.
I would rather switch off the electricity and cope. The whole thing stinks.

@Notcontent

I am not an expert on council tax bands but I assume that lots of people in London and other expensive areas will not get a rebate even though they might be struggling? I don’t think these kind of things should be tied to the value of property as you then get some anomalous results.

No chance for many - I've got a cheap as chips flat pack construction 2 bed house that's banded as G whilst the huge Victorian villas and a Georgian farmhouse along the road are in band D. Because mine was built after a certain year - the poky little flats built over a scrapyard at the other end of the street are also the top bands because they're newer, even though most don't even have enough space for a double bed.

But the point is that poorer people in London don't tend to vote Tory. So no point even bothering with them in the first place.

Maybe we need a repeat of the poll tax riots to stop this shit storm. People power and all that.

To add insult to injury, Shell has announced it had a "momentous year" and is expected to pay higher dividends to shareholders.

But at the same time it isn't possible to hold down energy prices.

We are most definitely not all in this together.

But the point is that poorer people in London don't tend to vote Tory. So no point even bothering with them in the first place.

Actually plenty do - or did - particularly but not only in the outer boroughs. Working class Tories exist in London just as they do elsewhere.

Re London. Just a note of advice to both Conservatives and Labour.

It would be sensible to not take London for granted or continue to neglect it.

The SNP (and a slightly resurged Conservative Party) in Scotland are a good example of what can happen when regions are taken for granted.

I don’t want a loan, I’d rather just pay what I owe now. I’m going to tell my energy company I don’t consent to a loan with them and don’t consent to additional payments being taken over the next 5 years.

It gives you a little chance to pay your bill, but it’s a loan all loans have to be paid back, simple economics it’s a drop in the ocean but it’s better than nothing, council tax is a genuine reduction. I’m wondering what will happen & at this moment in time it could! when everyone says, sorry, can’t pay this, what would be the outcome? interesting scenario but it could just happen

@Overthebow

I don’t want a loan, I’d rather just pay what I owe now. I’m going to tell my energy company I don’t consent to a loan with them and don’t consent to additional payments being taken over the next 5 years.

I'm going to give it a couple of weeks to see if an opt out shows up. If not, I'm going to do the same as you.