To be glad Norway is banning breeding deformed dogs?

[AnakinthePadawhine]

Norway will ban the breeding of King Charles and British bulldogs. I hope that this will catch on in other countries, and force breeders and Kennel Clubs to change their stupid and harmful standards?
Can pugs and French bulldogs be next?

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/02/norway-bans-breeding-british-bulldog-king-charles-cavalier-spaniel/

I thought any form of docking was banned!

Ear docking is illegal. But...

a) always someone willing to do it illegally
b) it is been legal to import them docked which allows a loophole
c) celebrities post docked dogs on their social media feeds and music videos (looking at you Rita Ora and co) turning them back into a fashionable accessory

The “breed standards” that have created this shit show should be banned. Flatter faces, smaller skulls, twisted vertebrae, droopy eyes etc being bred into dogs ON PURPOSE Is nothing short of monstrous. I’m not that old and I can remember when German shepherds could run around without looking like their spine curved right to the ground. There is one in my street who is only about 18 months and she can barely walk. We seem to have just accepted this as fine and started selling doggy staircases in BM bargains instead of stopping breeding dogs who can’t get onto the sofa aged 2.
My friend has a pug who she thinks is a JRT cross, but he’s a rescue so she’s not sure of the proportions. He’s a lovely dog, looks pug-like, but doesn’t snuffle when he breathes, he has longish legs and can run pretty fast. He’s still flat faced but it’s a start. My own dog is a longdog mongrel. Sight hounds are usually fairly healthy as the breeders aim for speed rather than cuteness but there is a trend towards very long faced dogs, especially borzois, which is unhealthy too. They end up with a huge overbite and can have breathing problems too.

Google "micro pocket bully" if you want to see how far humankind can fuck up another species

I know someone who paid £6k for one of these. It’s about 4 months take home pay for him. Ridiculous status symbol.

The Kennel Club has refused to publish results from research and really needs to be made to make breeding far more robust. They could have massively supported healthy breeding but have made it far too easy for breeders to fudge details and carry on breeding. Yes, a lot of it is down to public demand for trendy breeds, but the KC could make a big difference. It absolutely sickens me to see these poor creatures who simply aren’t fit for function.

Rhodesian Ridgebacks should be added to the list too. Breeding a dog to specifically have a mild form of spina bifida? Why, just why??

Someone I knew had one. It lived to the age of two when it had to be put down because its behaviour became uncontrollable. Turns out it had a severe infection in its spine that reached its brain because RR's have tiny holes in their skin in the ridged fur and infections can very easily get in. It's beyond cruel.

It's a good move. The kennel clubs and breed clubs won't do anything to change the breed standards to prioritise the health of the dog. From what I understand, the Norwegian kennel club refused to do anything to sort out the issue which is why the ban was brought in.
Very reminiscent of the KC in the UK shrugging and saying nowt was wrong after the Pannorama (I think it was) expose of pedigree breeding and then palming it off to the breed clubs who also shrugged and didn't see a problem. Until Pedigree Chum pulled their sponsorship of Crufts and the BBC dropped coverage of it. Then it was, "well, maybe we can look at the standards." GSDs have gotten marginally better, but it's still painful to watch them. I have family that had GSDs, while both had arthritis in the hind legs towards the end of their lives, they were nowhere near that deformed. The police manage to breed functional GSDs, surely, it can't be beyond the scope of show breeders.
I have a Border Collie. She's from working lines. She taller at the shoulder than most male show line Border Collies because the show dogs are being bred smaller. I remember joking with someone at a trade stand at Crufts a few years ago that the show lines were breeding "teacup collies".

even if breeders outbreed and start making them healthier, the non-freak dogs won’t be “recognised” by the Kennel Clubs

Totally agree! Search Levitt (?) bulldogs.

Also, when I was looking for a (healthy) dog from a breeder, I was told that it's ok to breed a carrier (for an genetic condition) with non carriers, especially if they are successful in the show ring.
Breeding for health is very difficult as you automatically move away from the perfect dog as per KC...

@Ylvamoon

even if breeders outbreed and start making them healthier, the non-freak dogs won’t be “recognised” by the Kennel Clubs

Totally agree! Search Levitt (?) bulldogs.

Also, when I was looking for a (healthy) dog from a breeder, I was told that it's ok to breed a carrier (for an genetic condition) with non carriers, especially if they are successful in the show ring.
Breeding for health is very difficult as you automatically move away from the perfect dog as per KC...

And that's exactly why the KCs should be disbanded. How can the idea of a perfect dog can be anything other than a healthy one?

Where I live, in Portugal, there are shepherds and goatherds everywhere, They all have dogs - some big, some medium-sized, some for guarding, some for herding. They're all intelligent and healthy, and they're all mutts. There's no reason why even a working dog has to be inbred (and the longer the line is bred, the higher the change it'll no longer be healthy or intelligent).

It's all absolute bollocks, and it makes me sick what these people do, while calling themselves dog lovers. There's no love, it's just greed.

Yeah, there should be no serious need for breed books and purebred dogs, especially for pets. All it does is restrict the genetic pool.

It's actually quite difficult to find a mixed dog where I live.

You are actually more likely to find crosses used in some high performance working dogs like sled dogs. Racing sled dogs are very often a real mix of breeds. Even with dog racing there is genetic testing to make sure other breeds haven't been added to gain an advantage - that should tell us something.

Breeding records are essential to record bad matings that you don't want to repeat.

@yorkshireteaspoonie

I love cavaliers too. They are the most affectionate and loving dogs. There are some horrific breeders out there but there are some healthy well bred ones too.

@Thelnebriati

Breeding records are essential to record bad matings that you don't want to repeat.

Only within the mad world of inbreeding animals for aesthetic reasons. It's circular logic.

It really isn't, and its a mistake to think all cross breeds are automatically healthy. Any cross can have an unwanted outcome.

I didn't say all cross breeds are automatically healthy. I'm saying the entire concept of creating and perpetuating breeds based on aesthetics is utterly disgusting, and hopefully one day people will look back on the practice with horror.

If someone decided to take an unusually short-legged person and make them reproduce with another unusually short-legged person, then continue to mate their descendants until they created a human "breed" with impractically short legs (plus inevitable genetic diseases), they'd be jailed.

That's literally all dog breeding is.

It's a step in the right direction, but the tip of a disgusting iceberg which illustrates how monstrous humans can be.

We have created Frankenstein monsters by breeding for traits that have no relation to dog health, temperament or longevity.

I work with dogs and am amazed to find so many owners who simply had no idea of these issues when they selected their new puppy. They just chose a dog that they liked the look of. I strongly believe there needs to be more communication about this because too many people unwittingly choose a dog without being aware of these issues. These people are good people, who care deeply about their dog but were naive.

I know that the issue is huge and the juggernaut of unscrupulous breeding feels unstoppable- but I still think we need to try to gain control of this.

A complete overhaul of breed standards would be a great start- or let's even ban them altogether as I fail to see that they prioritise dog welfare at all.

I have a labrador. He is a working type build and he is small, and compact and slim. He is beautiful, but fails every labrador breed standard- his legs are too fine (which means he is lighter and may have better joint health as a result), he is too small (again this is likely to be beneficial to joint health), the gap between his front legs is too short (because he is small and slim), his head is too narrow, his legs are too long compared to his body. In a nutshell, to be considered 'well bred and to have good confirmation for KC standards' he should be heavier boned, shorter legged but with a bigger body, heavier broader head, wider gap between front legs etc.. All those things make for a handsome but big, heavy, cumbersome dog- in a breed which has challenges with joint health. It is a joke. Generally labradors which look like mine have less joint issues and can enjoy exercise freely to a great age. The heavier ones begin to struggle much sooner- it is so so sad to see.

@TheLeadbetterLife

I didn't say all cross breeds are automatically healthy. I'm saying the entire concept of creating and perpetuating breeds based on aesthetics is utterly disgusting, and hopefully one day people will look back on the practice with horror.

If someone decided to take an unusually short-legged person and make them reproduce with another unusually short-legged person, then continue to mate their descendants until they created a human "breed" with impractically short legs (plus inevitable genetic diseases), they'd be jailed.

That's literally all dog breeding is.

@TheLeadbetterLife I completely agree. It's horrific what we have allowed to happen to 'man's best friend' .

Problematic cross breeding is an issue too- but it is a separate issue with different problems.

And this is not a uniquely dog problem - though maybe they have suffered first so suffered the worst. Cats and rabbits both now being bred with flat faces. Excessive fur and too long/short ears also. Horses now being bred with increasingly concave faces.

It's going to get worst across all those species yet, I fear.

I think it’s a very good thing and I hope it happens here and is increased to cover many more breeds that have so many physical problems bred into them. The KC is a shit show, an utterly irresponsible organisation.

Couldn't agree more. KC is appalling presiding over and encouraging these Frankenstein creations. Can't express enough contempt for them and all associates.

@SirSniffsAlot

And this is not a uniquely dog problem - though maybe they have suffered first so suffered the worst. Cats and rabbits both now being bred with flat faces. Excessive fur and too long/short ears also. Horses now being bred with increasingly concave faces.

It's going to get worst across all those species yet, I fear.

Is that an actual horse and not a photo shop? I had no idea that was a thing, surely you just want a horse to be … a horse?

It’s appalling what is being done to animals., and with no thought. I do worry about cats. I had a look at cats for sale (not actually going to buy one. I was just curious). It was all ragdoll mixes. Scottish folds. Various hairless options. Very flat faced Persians. I’m fairly sure that 90% of the ragdoll mixes were just slightly fluffy moggies. But even so.

Does anyone know if there are any UK based organisations trying to tackle this, or raise awareness?

It is, sadly, a real horse - and not the most extreme example I could have chosen. There are (even) worse.

Yes, cat breeding is getting as out of control as dogs. The obsession with flat faced animals - cats dog rabbits - is alarming.

Well done Norway. Breeding deliberately deformed animals is inhumane and downright criminal in my opinion. The breeders of these poor dogs are not dog lovers they're only in it for the money, and the buyers of these dogs are not dog lovers either. It breaks my heart to see these fashion statement pugs/bulldogs etc that waddle along gasping for breath.

@freckles20

Does anyone know if there are any UK based organisations trying to tackle this, or raise awareness?

I don’t know, but there should be.

A good start would be for people to stop regarding Kennel Clubs as the experts and arbiters of what a dog is, and see them for what they are - the self-appointed overseers of unregulated, incestuous genetic experiments.

A dog is a dog. Breeds are not real, they’re a social construct and Kennel Clubs seem to be a form of collective delusion perpetuated by people with too much time and money. No-one needs these poor, freak animals. They seem to be a by-product of 20th century wealth and leisure.

Some selective breeding for useful working traits is one thing, and the vast majority of the world’s working dogs are mutts, because aesthetic “standards” are irrelevant.

The KCs are not interested in the welfare and health of dogs. Restricting gene pools is always a one-way street to deformity, brain damage and ultimately extinction. Look at the Hapsburgs.

Good! We should be doing that here.

“Purebreds” are nonsense, and dogs are just going to keep getting sicker as breeders continue inbreeding them.

Here's another horse- video near the bottom
horseyhooves.com/el-rey-magnum-arabian-horse-breeding/