To be glad Norway is banning breeding deformed dogs?

[AnakinthePadawhine]

Norway will ban the breeding of King Charles and British bulldogs. I hope that this will catch on in other countries, and force breeders and Kennel Clubs to change their stupid and harmful standards?
Can pugs and French bulldogs be next?

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/02/norway-bans-breeding-british-bulldog-king-charles-cavalier-spaniel/

@Peccary

The Netherlands have been very forward thinking on this issue, from genetic screening to banning certain breeds

But not as forward as the countries who have already done this - such as the Netherlands in 2019 (same year as Air France stopped carrying all brachy breeds on flights)

Nor the countries with 'torture breeding' laws, which have been around since at least 2011 in Germany, Austria and Switzerland (and cover things like double merle as well)

"I kind of scared to Google "micro pocket bully". How disgusting is it?"

Its chest is the most flattened in a dorso-ventral (spine to sternum) direction than any breed I have ever seen. So its ribcage is wider laterally (from side to side), like a human, than it is deep. This and the double muscling cause the scapulae and elbows to spread out laterally, like a human, instead of being perpendicular to the ground like a dog. The heavily muscled, laterally spread upper forelimbs give the appearance of a human body builder. Dogs do not have collar bones like humans do, so support for this abnormal structure depends upon the muscling. The skull is very round, like a human rather than a dog, and the face flat like a human rather than having a muzzle like a dog. The ears are cropped (illegal in the UK) close to the head rather than the pinnae being prominent like a dog. They do appear to have tails (from what I can see- much emphasis is placed on photos taken from the front to show chest width) rather than being very short and distorted or absent as in a French bulldog, although I would not be surprised if the absence of a tail is the next trait to be selected for.

On another breeding note what’s the attraction of breeding dogs without tails or tails that curl over anyway…last thing I want to see is a dogs bum hole proudly on display every time it walks past

I prefer my dogs to resemble normal animals that can run, breathe have long legs and have a long noses. I also like functional ears and tails for reading body language. If your worried about someone coming for your dog because it’s so deformed you’ve got issues!!!

I am
So sad that Cavaliers are one of the two. I don’t understand why they haven’t just put in place much more rigorous bedding protocols which could
Then breed out the health problems (mainly heart and syringomelia). It’s definitely a breed that can be saved if the work is done

@GeorgiaGirl52

They came for the English bulldogs and I didn't speak because I didn't have a bulldog. Then they came for the pugs and I didn't speak because I didn't have a pug. Then they came for the Shih Tzu and I didn't speak, just got out my gun and started shooting because I am an American and that's what we do.

By "they" I assume you mean ignorant and unscrupulous breeders who have collectively bred animals without much chance at a decent quality of life because of the heavy burden of malformations they carry?

@FFSFFSFFS

I am So sad that Cavaliers are one of the two. I don’t understand why they haven’t just put in place much more rigorous bedding protocols which could Then breed out the health problems (mainly heart and syringomelia). It’s definitely a breed that can be saved if the work is done

An estimated 95% of CKC carry the genes for the skull malformation that causes Syringomyelia. They are dogs with lovely temperaments but I am not sure the breed can be ethically saved now.

Velvet, huskies can have issues including hip dysplasia, epilepsy and eye problems. You can't just say some breeds are healthier because of what they look like.
Careful breeding is one thing; it's overbreeding that's the problem.

Excellent news.
Dog breeding should be controlled in general, with bans and punishment on the feckless who breed their pets to make money.

@SirSniffsAlot I know it’s so sad. I know there is a lot of work done in the uk by some cavalier group but then I see so many others breeding their own pets without doing mri etc not to mention puppy farmers. I still think the breed can be saved but I am getting less hopeful

Totally agree OP - so many dogs have major health problems from being bred to look pretty. It is outrageous. I don't even like dogs and I see a massive problem with it, yet so-called dog lovers have them as fur babies pets.

Completely agree. Bog standard heinz 57 can't be had anymore (I spent years looking). We went for a Westie in the end as seems few inherited traits or problems. Just don't get the whole flat nose thing

@FFSFFSFFS

I am So sad that Cavaliers are one of the two. I don’t understand why they haven’t just put in place much more rigorous bedding protocols which could Then breed out the health problems (mainly heart and syringomelia). It’s definitely a breed that can be saved if the work is done

Yes, it probably could.

They don't have flat faces.

People like brachycephalic breeds, they come with built in brakes. If dogs all had the snout of a fox, legs of an African wild dog and lung capacity of a husky, owners would have to put in a lot of physical effort. Many dog owners do not want to do that.

So true @Postdatedpandemic. I assume many of those who buy pugs, Frenchies etc actually don’t really like going for walks so they choose a breed that can just about cope with a ten minute plod round the block once or twice a day.

I’ll admit I judge people who buy Frenchies and pugs from a breeder. Either they know about the health issues and they don’t care, or they haven’t bothered to spend five minutes Googling their chosen breed.

Our downstairs neighbour when we lived in our flat had a pug. The noises that poor thing made just trying to walk around I couldn’t have a dog that sounded like it was dying just from a walk around the block. Also their eyes can just fall out the socket…when I read that I was shocked. I want a dog that can run and play and I can throw a ball for.

@Maneandfeathers

On another breeding note what’s the attraction of breeding dogs without tails or tails that curl over anyway…last thing I want to see is a dogs bum hole proudly on display every time it walks past

I prefer my dogs to resemble normal animals that can run, breathe have long legs and have a long noses. I also like functional ears and tails for reading body language. If your worried about someone coming for your dog because it’s so deformed you’ve got issues!!!

Dogs with that sort of tail are natural. If you go to India or the Far East all the dogs (millions and millions of them) are like that and they sure haven't been selectively bred. I do agree with your feelings on pencil sharpener bums on display, but it's a factory setting.

YY Bideshi. Landrace dogs like the one in the illustration here
embarkvet.com/resources/dog-breeds/hong-kong-village-dog/

When I was a child we lived in the Far East and had one. He was the best dog ever.

Upcurled tails come as a side-effect of selecting for friendly characteristics, i.e. the domestication process itself would appear to result in physiccal changes even when those changes are not part of the breeding selection criteria (you can include a seperation of coat colour into multiple distinct colurs and floppy ears).

So the upturned tail is not exactly (always) a selected physical trait but it's not quite the factory setting either.

In feral dogs that selection is likely still happening as a result of friendlier dogs being more succesful than fearful dogs (fearful dogs will scavenge near humans less, take food directly from humans less and, if they bite, more likely to be run off, injured or killed than the friendly ones).

In bred dogs there is definately some further selection going on for those breeds with exaggerated upturned tails, over and above the changes that happen as a side effect of domestication-selection.

Nice illustration of those changes seen in the famous fox experiment on domestication here which shows the changes mentioned.

Yeah I remember listening to a talk from a professor in evolution and he said the dogs that would survive a human apocalypse would be the type you would drawer as a kid just generic dog like, medium sized, mixed, average about medium fur etc, as all the dogs bread for specific hunting for humans or looks would die out sooner.
I really love king Charles spaniels they are beautiful, so kind and sweet and I want one, but I won't as I know a lot of health issues, will probably rescue a mutt instead 🙂

Very good idea.

@Maneandfeathers - Dobermanns have naturally curly tails too. Can't see why this is a problem.

@EerieSilence it’s not a problem !

I didn’t mean a natural loose type curl. I meant the tight corkscrew curl where there’s a fold underneath like a bulldog or the likes of frenchies that have 0 tail at all!
I know it’s not the end of the world but just why is it fashion to have no tail just a bum on display

The fashions are just bizarre to me, wrinkly faces and stumpy bodies…just why!

To produce the tight double curl of the pug, or the stump or absent tail of the Frenchie, the coccygeal vertebrae must be deformed or absent. Then breed enthusiasts get all shocked when cervical, thoracic, lumbar or sacral vertebrae are deformed

The idea of breeding these traits for fashion is so abhorrent.

As a pp said, even if breeders outbreed and start making them healthier, the non-freak dogs won’t be “recognised” by the Kennel Clubs. That is absolutely insane. Who gives a fuck what the KCs think?

Dog breeds are not a real thing, they’re just disgusting Dr Moreau-esque experiments perpetuated by fashion and greed. If people were inbreeding generations of humans to the point of obscene deformity, there would be outcry, and long prison sentences.

Kennel Clubs should be disbanded. All they do is justify the madness. Genetically, a dog is a dog. Just because some loon decided to create a malformed one and call it a breed doesn’t mean anyone should take them seriously. Even if they are wearing a blazer.

I'm still reeling over hearing that some breeds get their ears docked!!!

I thought any form of docking was banned!