To ask if you are a 'housewife' with no children?

[crochetmonkey74]

I know the term housewife is outdated so first off apologies.
I've always wondered about this , I had a great aunt and uncle who never had children but she never worked. I've always been interested in how this would be (been a bit of a fantasy of mine)
Do any of you have this life ? What is it like?

I have no children and work 20.5 hours a week - I am never bored shitless and have plenty to do and keep me occupied. I have interests and hobbies and my job is just a job and not the defining feature of my life. I could easily give up work and still never be bored, exactly the same as when we retire we won't be bored. People who can't think of anything to fill their days if they're not working maybe need to take up a hobby

@KarenTheGammonRemoaner Yes! In so many societies, the roles seen as traditionally female roles are devalued and the roles seem as traditionally male are celebrated. So:

Going out into the world and earning money = good, fulfilling and challenging.

Staying at home and doing housework: depressing and unfulfilling.

I agree that it becomes almost self fulfilling. If society is constantly telling you that the things you’re doing are of no value (because women fought for your right to do other things), many will soon start to believe it. And that’s certainly depressing.

Whereas, if people would dust the chips off their shoulders and approach things with slightly less bile, it would be clear that there’s a broad spectrum of human motivations, circumstances and activities. And that’s perfectly fine.

Each to their own
Personaly I enjoy work,and like the contrast between working and leisure time.
I like to earn my own money,and set an example to my children

@MeSanniesareBrannies

Have you even thought about what you’re saying? Is working the till at Tesco ‘developing women to their full potential’? Of working in a call centre? No?

Working the till at Tesco/in a call centre is providing women with financial insurance and independence. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I'd rather work a till in Tesco than live a life of luxury all paid for by my husband.

It’s bizarre that you believe paid labour is the sole way in which to do that

I don't believe that paid labour is the only way to develop a woman's potential, as I've repeatedly said here. I do, however, believe, that devoting your entire life to "running a household"" is not a particularly fulfilling way to live.

I dont know any housewives but I do know a few house husbands (husbands of friends). All child-free and in their 40s and 50s. None of them have worked in the last 20 years due to lack of skills, deep religeous commitments or depression and anxiety.

As far as I'm aware, they fill their days by reading, exercising, walking, online research and gardening plus the usual housework and admin. All seem happy enough.

@BoredZelda my mum worked way more than 60 hours a week at her corporate job, my dad owns commercial property which sometimes brought in more income than what my mum earned in her day job in some years. Not now due to the pandemic. My dad did not work in the conventional sense, he collected rent. My mum did not resent my father. My dad doesn't like gardening but he seems to spend all his time reading news. He also picks my mum and sister up from their jobs.

@UniBallEye

This is a really interesting discussion, I work full time, in a very interesting and fulfilling (though challenging) sector and I have dc and a dh. I have also spent several years as a SAHM when dc were little (and in early primary school so I had lots of days on my own in house etc)

I think we really allow paid work to define us far too much. I love my job and I feel lucky to work where i do but it is not the be all and end all of me.

@Sunnysideup999 your post sort of encapsulates the gist of a lot of the argument for me - why would be only achievements I might look back on be related only to my paid work?

Why do I need work to 'give me a dimension'?

I think about this a lot and I would have a really happy and fulfilled life without paid work (assuming I had means to actually live and not have the threat of homelessness) and it wouldn't be all housework or shopping - are they the only things permitted if you're not in work?

I am endlessly interested in the world and read a huge amount. I would love the time to read to my hearts content and follow paths of interest.

I would study subjects because I was interested in them

I would spend far more time outdoors enjoying the beauty of the countryside

I would travel as much as I possibly afford

I would spend more time preparing good food and eat far better than I do now

I would re-organise my house so it suited my interests / needs better

I would have an even more lovely garden as I would have the time to work in it

I can guarantee I would rarely, if ever, be bored. I am really looking forward to retirement!

I am very senior in my role (CEO) but it baffled me in the years I took out how it really challenged some people and I have to say it was mainly female former colleagues. They didn't quite know how to introduce me without the 'this is UniBallEye, she's the XXX at YY company'

My grandmother was overtly proud of the fact that she'd 'never had to work,' and she saw it in those terms too 'having to work'

I adored going to stay with them for weekends / holidays. It was a blissful house to me. She was a wonderful baker and cook and made delicious meals every day. Her days had a rhythm to them - up early to have breakfast with my grandad before he want off to work, clean up the kitchen and sweep the floors. Always dressed properly etc. Out to the shops for the days supplies by 10am - a walk up the town to the individual shops, the butcher, the greengrocer, the bakery, the fishmonger etc. Home by 11am. Radio on in the background and she would make dinner, always always a two course meal. My grandad got home 1.10pm on the dot each day and she would have the food timed to perfection with zero stress or frazzle. Dessert ready to go on the side - usually things like stewed fruit & homemade custard or rice pudding with homemade jam.

Grandad went back to work and she cleaned the kitchen and the afternoon stretched out. I remember these afternoons of my childhood as lazy, warm, filled with sunlight beaming in the windows and we might do stuff like go for a long cycle all along the old canal banks way out in the country - sometimes bringing a small picnic.

Or she would go up to their bedroom and work for a few hours on her sewing machine, she was a competent dressmaker and made summer dresses for herself and me sometimes. I would curl up for hours, undisturbed, reading and reading and reading

Or we would bake something for the tea - brown bread / scones / apple tarts / fairy buns / tea brack / sponge cake. These were my favourite days.

Or she might visit a friend or relative, sometimes going to the local hospital to make a visit. I remember that long walk there and back

When my grandad got home we would have tea and whatever we'd baked. Then we might all go for a walk, or he would work for a few hours in his beautiful garden, or we might go to the church for prayers

The tv was only put on late in the evening for the news and perhaps 1 programme.

The days were busy and happy and not at all like my own home life which was always quite stressful. I don't think my grandmother would consider that her like was unfulfilled or without dimension or lacking in achievements..

It's not the life I live now, but I have really fond memories and in many ways when I think of 'home' its their house I think of and not my own actual childhood house

Lovely post

Your gran sounds ace

Most of the long term 'SAHP' (those with DC at school and university) I know do very little out of the house, fuss a lot about their DC and seem a bit delicate, I suspect that it's such an unusual choice now that more capable women don't do it and would rather maintain financial independence.
Fucking hell ! Delicate university SAHP here. I do have a big old house to 'run' but thankfully, a gardener to manage outside. My standards of cleaning are very low. Two dogs.Presently I have two plumbers and a decorator here. A fairly typical day.
I believe I have financial independence having bought some property to rent out when I finished FT employment. Also have contributed to build a healthy pension pot.
Hand on heart I am never bored. I do facilitate a support group in the village because I feel I need to give something back.
I am aware how bloody lucky I am but I know many women, around 50, in my position. Most, like me with my 'landlady' hat on, do a bit of work in a field they enjoy. We seem reasonably capable. I can't remember the last day I spent wholly at home.
I suppose the fact I'm on MN in the middle of the day,means I must have a fair bit of free time but that could apply to all of us on here atm.

I haven't brought any significant money into my relationship for the last year. My mental health took a nosedive over the pandemic and although I'm self employed and do still run my business, I chose that it would take up very little of my time and my husband now earns almost 100% of our income. He was (and still is!) supportive of this. We're child free.

I get up between 9 and 10 most mornings. I do the majority, but not all, of our housework and cooking, since it's only 2 of us it doesn't take up much time. My days always feel full - I'm very creative and have a lot of hobbies, I garden, exercise, plan house things.

I do feel guilty as I never thought I wouldn't earn for so long and it's getting harder to justify this extended break, especially as my health improves. I contributed a lot financially up until the end of 2020 which helps me justify it somewhat, but I miss having 'my own money'. Even though we have a 'one pot' approach I still don't feel like it's fair (this is my hang up, not DHs tbf), if I could remove the guilt, I'd be perfectly happy!

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@MeSanniesareBrannies

Have you even thought about what you’re saying? Is working the till at Tesco ‘developing women to their full potential’? Of working in a call centre? No?

Working the till at Tesco/in a call centre is providing women with financial insurance and independence. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I'd rather work a till in Tesco than live a life of luxury all paid for by my husband.

It’s bizarre that you believe paid labour is the sole way in which to do that

I don't believe that paid labour is the only way to develop a woman's potential, as I've repeatedly said here. I do, however, believe, that devoting your entire life to "running a household"" is not a particularly fulfilling way to live.[/quote]
I never said there was anything wrong with working behind the till at Tesco. I asked if it was developing women to their full potential, which was your argument. You haven’t answered the question. So, again: Is working the till at Tesco ‘developing women to their full potential’? Or working in a call centre?

I am not scampering about reading all your comments. I am reading and responding to what you’ve said to me, so what you’ve ‘repeatedly said here’ is irrelevant.

I at no point stated that ‘running a household’ was particularly fulfilling (so you may be mixing up your conversations). However, if it’s what’s a woman chooses do, it is as valid a choice as any paid employment and just as likely to ‘develop her full potential’ and be just as fulfilling as quite a lot of paid employment opportunities.

[quote AllThePogs]@CounsellorTroi I know it has. But I am not talking about alzheimers here, but just people acting and coming across as very old before their time.[/quote]
But the fact that you get paid for what you do doesn't mean that you become old before your tine!

@JosephineDeBeauharnais

I know several women in this situation. They are childless by choice, married to high earning men and wouldn’t dream of doing any sort of work. They don’t volunteer, do charity work, fundraising, nothing. They also have cleaners and gardeners. What they do is shop, coffee, lunch, plan holidays, walk the dog. They’ve always got a home improvement project on the go, or are moving house. They seem to fill their time very nicely and have lovely, enviable lives.

Do they though? Have lovely enviable lives that is? Behind closed doors I suspect there might be a bit more to it than that. High earning men (warning - mass generalisation coming up) tend to be a certain type. Theirs is not a lifestyle I envy, especially when those high earning men hit midlife crisis age, leave to marry someone 15 years younger, and have kids with them. Seen it too many times.

I am of course stereotyping here, but it does happen, a lot.

I was at home for a while without kids. Difference was I ran holiday lets, and looked after 6 acres of garden, without any outside help. I spent my days cleaning, doing laundry, cutting hedges, cutting lawns, weeding, out on the tractor etc. i have never worked so hard or been so exhausted in my life. I now have kids and a proper job and it's a breeze.

Is the variable here possibly the fact that now there are more social opportunities for women? I joined theatre and go to bars and have many friends etc. .. this wasn't the case back then and socialising was only done in supermarket aisles.

I think this was the source of feeling depressed rather than the role as householder and mother* *

Exactly! Can't really hold a book about women's experiences in the 1800's to now

@SofiaSoFar

...anyone who says they must be bored can only be jealous.

Why do so many people on MN use 'jealous' as their riposte to disagreements?

It's really unimaginative and feeble.

perhaps borne of lack of mental stimulation due to being under-/un-employed

Haha, jealously and resentment. Live and let live.

Well, I suspect most of us could fill the time, but the question is more about why we should rely on someone else's work to fund the day trips and exercising?
If both parties are happy with that what's the problem?
Many people and couples rely on parents for childcare and/or couldn't have bought houses without their parents financial support and nobody bats an eyelid.
If I won the lottery I'd have no problem with supporting as many members of my family as I could afford to, I don't know why anybody wouldn't.
My husband has been fortunate enough to earn a lottery winning amount and is more than happy to share it with me. I could work if I wanted to but financially have no need, in the short term it would mean we had less free time and longer term make our children richer.

@MeSanniesareBrannies

I'm not asking you to "scamper about" doing anything: you accused me of saying paid labour is the only way to achieve fulfilment, I'm simply rebutting this. I have said I think work gives people skills and benefits which are helpful for life, but its by no means the only way to achieve fulfilment.

"Full potential" is hard to define and everyone's definition will be difficult. You may or may not get fulfilment from working in Tesco depending whether you like your job. But you will at least know you can support yourself.

For me the absolute central point here is financial autonomy. You can't be free if you are entirely dependent on your husband's money. That trumps all other considerations for me.

On a slightly unrelated matter, the point of the OP was to ask whether people enjoyed being a housewife. Lots of people have piled on to say they think running a household is a valid choice for a woman. This is a silly argument because everything is a "valid choice" if it works for you. Personally I wouldn't find it fulfilling, because I think having done that all my life I would look back and think "what a waste". I watched my mother do exactly this. I can only speak for myself but I stand by this.

Those of you sneering at the SAH people, I hope you all get the long, happy and healthy retirement you all dream of. Otherwise how many of you will be saying from your sick/death beds " I wish I'd spent more time at work"? Not many, I'm sure!

@Sunnysideup999

I think if you’re young and healthy, it’s a bit of a waste of a life tbh. What do you look back on as your achievements? At least part time work / running your own business would give a dimension. If you’re in poor health and cannot work, that is different

my achievements from that time. I was happy I was able to care for older relatives I supported my partner in doing a globally important piece of work I contributed to OUR income by enabling him to do a high pressure long hours high paying job.

Its not a life that would have suited/would suit now everybody but then what life does? and if you don't want to do it nobody is going to make you...but why the judginess and vitriol?
oh hark? is that the squish of sour grapes I hear?

@stuntbubbles

dusting and polishing Tuesday That takes you up to 9.30am, perhaps 10am if you’ve had a lie-in. You’d need something to fill the rest of the day – and enough money to do so if you don’t want to be stuck at home. You need a project and a purpose. (Pushing a hoover around is neither.)

Not everyone will need a project or a purpose....many will be happy to just 'be'.... ' nothing to do and all day to do it' will be some peoples idea of bliss

Running the house is a job though, whether paid or not
but it's just a crap job isn't it? Most of us do this on top of everyone else and just get on with it.

I need more in life. I don't need to be successful or wealthy, but I need to feel like I am achieving things and growing/challenging myself as a person or what's the point? It's just dull.

@DickMabutt73962

Is the variable here possibly the fact that now there are more social opportunities for women? I joined theatre and go to bars and have many friends etc. .. this wasn't the case back then and socialising was only done in supermarket aisles.

I think this was the source of feeling depressed rather than the role as householder and mother* *

Exactly! Can't really hold a book about women's experiences in the 1800's to now

Betty Friedan wrote her book in the early 1960s, not the 1800s. There were plenty of social opportunities in the 60's, and women belonged to far more clubs and hobby groups than they do now.

I mean it would be lovely but you’d have to be fucking loaded to even consider it. I’m 30 and most of my friends have small kids, one of my friends has just gone part time and we are all well jealous she can afford it. We’re all doing up houses we bought in our late 20s and paying off post graduate loans there’s no way both members of a couple couldn’t work in my friendship group.

I know some older mums who don’t work but they saved through their 30s and had money to take like 6 years or so off when they had a child.

@kitcat15 I don't think doing anything much all day year after year is good for anyone.

Also a lot of strawmen on this thread. No one has said paid work is the only way. We are simply suggesting that it is generally healthier to have more to fill your days than housework, walking the dog and a few lunches.

@Imyourvenus

I just can’t fathom why anyone would want this. I’d be bored shitless.

What a fundamental lack of imagination to not have any idea how to use the gift of time!!

@MyrtlethePurpleTurtle I would study, a second degree. And I would get more involved in activism.
I wouldn't be wasting my day doing more housework that really isn't necessary. Or bumbling about the house.