COW

[Suzi888]

chooseveg.com/blog/documentary-cow/

Anyone watched this… I can’t bring myself to watch it, but it’ll be coming to cinemas shortly.

What is the best milk substitute you have tried? Specifically when added to tea, I don’t mind the substitutes in cereal but my tea tastes grim without milk.

@Pat123dev

They never post the videos of farms where animals are kept and sustainably with high welfare. The propaganda is so frustrating.

I follow many farmers on Twitter and you can see many examples of good farming practices. These aren't propaganda. Just everyday life on farms

@twinkletoesimnot

Try Googling calf at foot dairies.

It's a thing.

They get to keep their calves and the farmer just takes the excess milk.

Obviously it is more expensive as farmer probably gets less than half the milk.

This how small farms used to do it.

I live abroad where milk substitutes aren't a thing - just absolutely impossible to find. Needless to say I won't be watching the documentary (and I still drink/give my kids milk )

I had a pet cow for 25 years. Her mother died when she was born so I took over. She followed me like a big dog everywhere - we'd go hiking all over our land which is many hundreds of acres. She had all the same emotions a human has. Once I climbed a very steep hill to see where the herd had gone and realized I couldn't get back down the trail, - I'm disabled. I called for her and she left the herd and came to me. I put my arm over her neck and she did tiny little dolly steps all the way to the bottom. Once I was safe on flat ground she returned to the herd.

She's buried in my garden next to her best pal, my horse. It was heartbreaking to see her looking everywhere for him after he died.

I miss them so much.

So what's the best solution, ? If people changed their eating habits and drinking habits, for example cows were not needed, would then they be very few cows that would exist due to not being needed ?

I'm not saying this in any way as a way to justify the overuse and any potential mistreatment of any animals.

My wording is intended to help as a debate topic.

Some of the best and some of the cheapest dairy alternatives:

Milk:

Best- opinions vary but I like Oatly barista.
Cheapest- supermarket own brand soya available from 59p a litre.

Butter:

Best- naturli, similar to lurpak apparently. No palm oil too. Available sainsburys, Waitrose, and sometimes on special at lidl.
Cheapest- vitalite is often only £1.

“Milk” Chocolate:

Best- Nomo chocolate, Cadbury plant and vegan Lindt are all very very good.
Cheapest- supermarket own brand “free from” chocolate, but it’s worth spending the extra for the good stuff if you can.

Cheese:

Best- artisan nut based cheese, or make your own nut based cheese

Cheapest- I think of the supermarket stuff which is all roughly the same price applewood is probably best, nush cream cheese is nice too.

Yoghurt:

Best- I’m not too much of a fan of yoghurt but alpro does a good range or coyo for coconut yoghurt.
Cheapest- most supermarkets have own brand soya yoghurt.

Pizza:

Best- Purezza in London/ Brighton! Or from a supermarket I like the tesco wicked pizza in the fresh section. The goodfellas deep dish ones are meant to be good.
Cheapest- most supermarkets have an own brand fresh vegan pizza. Asda pizza counter has vegan cheese.

Cream:

Elmlea plant double is your best bet if you want whipped cream.
Violife cream is lovely and thick.
Alpro single cream good too for a thin cream.
None are massively pricey.

@Hawkins001

So what's the best solution, ? If people changed their eating habits and drinking habits, for example cows were not needed, would then they be very few cows that would exist due to not being needed ?

I'm not saying this in any way as a way to justify the overuse and any potential mistreatment of any animals.

My wording is intended to help as a debate topic.

We don’t need dogs and cats or horses but their numbers aren’t exactly going down.

@Bortles

Agree that I cannot watch it due - am too sensitive about this stuff. The problem is that the people who should watch it, won't because they don't care. There might be a few on the fence who will and who will change. Eventually, the uncaring MAY be the minority if there's a suitably convincing alternative, but most humans choose pleasure and convenience over what is 'right'.

In answer to your question, OP, oat is the most creamy and the best substitute.

My bf baby had an intolerance to oats unfortunately, so that made me go to almond. I'm just now back to oat. My children have cow's at the moment - can anyone point me to good research re. bone density, milk, growing children as my DP isn't convinced? Of course we can't NEED another animal's milk, we couldn't have evolved that reliance that quickly, so it rings false to me.

Dd has never drunk milk she hates it. She is taller than her dad.

I was told by loads of people that feeding her a “restricted” diet would mean it would stunt her growth.
Maybe I did stunt her growth and if I had fed her a meat diet she would have got a scholarship to an American university to play basket ball

Having not eaten meat or dairy for decades I look on meat eating as an old fashioned concept

I am always surprised when I go round to someone’s house and they are cooking meat

Almost a wow you still actually eat meat.

My friend owns a dairy farm
How many people have actually visited & seen for themselves ?

Having not eaten meat or dairy for decades I look on meat eating as an old fashioned concept

Oh for goodness sake. The majority of people still eat meat, and yet it is "an old fashioned concept"

My friend owns a dairy farm
How many people have actually visited & seen for themselves ?

Very few I suspect. Many posters live in huge cities and I doubt they set foot outside of them judging by some of the posts I read on threads like this.

@M1nd0fAMagp1E

I have been to many dairy farms and unless your friend runs one of the very few calf at foot dairies, then she will still be removing the calf soon after birth and either killing it, selling it for live export or raising it for veal. Veal calves are usually killed at 6 months.

The cow will be used for milk and killed within 5 years, if not sooner. Cows have a natural life span of 20+ years

Even organic farms will separate them at birth, although they ensure the calf is given the mothers milk and kept in the herd for 12 weeks, they will dispose of the calves as above and still
kill the cows when they have dropped their milk production.

There is contention about calf at foot farming as well though, about the spread of disease particularly.

Diary cows really do have a miserable life, no matter how well run a farm is.

@Ellowyn she sounds wonderful

@M1nd0fAMagp1E

My friend owns a dairy farm How many people have actually visited & seen for themselves ?

Personally I don't have to visit one to know I don't fancy eating their bodies or drinking fluids that come out of them, ew.

These days you can find amazing vegan versions of pretty much anything you fancy, including milk, butter, meat etc.

I feel that cheese is the only exception for the most part. Most vegan cheese is really unpleasant.

BUT Purezza is amazing. It was actually a non-vegan who loved it and recommended it to me! Their pizzas are fantastic, and they even won awards for best pizza (non just ‘best vegan pizza’) at the world pizza awards in Italy. They have restaurants in London, Brighton, Bristol and Manchester and hopefully will open more across the country! They also sell pizzas and mozzarella online for home delivery across the UK.

Also, my partner really loves the Kinda Co. cheeses, sort of softish cheddars.

I hope there will be more innovations in vegan cheese. Especially with companies like Perfect Day in the US, which is has apparently developed proteins, including whey and caseins, that are bio-identical to dairy. This sounds really promising for much more realistic cheese in terms of taste and texture in the future!

Oat milk no sugars version

Violife cheese. See photo.

Most ring doughnuts are vegan and many many supermarkets jam doughnuts are vegan for a sweet hit.

Vego bar chocolate is like Cadbury's wholenut. Sold in asda and holland and Barrett and Amazon of course. See photo.

Wicked pizzas are the best but there are loads around now so you'll find one you like.

Love that there has been pages and pages of people suggesting what milk and cheese to use, meanwhile there thousands of other products out there that they will happily keep munching without giving the ingredients a second thought. Give up cows milk, conscience salved 🤣

@Thatsplentyjack

Love that there has been pages and pages of people suggesting what milk and cheese to use, meanwhile there thousands of other products out there that they will happily keep munching without giving the ingredients a second thought. Give up cows milk, conscience salved 🤣

Vegan products are always held to a higher standard ie omg soya damages the environment (even though most of it is used for cattle feed), as if you have to be perfect otherwise why on earth aren't you just eating animals and their by products. Same when people talk about nutrition, its always you'll be deficient in x, but a lot of omnis have terrible diets with a lack of certain vitamins and minerals too.

I became vegan for animal welfare and environmental reasons. I’d hadn’t really considered the impact that working in a UK abattoir has on the workers, and found this really disturbing.

Confessions of a slaughterhouse worker
www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-50986683

@Namechangedone

Spread of disease?
Such as?

You will also find that in the UK only 35% of imported soya is fed to livestock. I'm not saying this is a good thing- imo it's awful and we certainly eat too much of it. It's true that often figures and facts are used that do not reflect the situation in this country where steps are being made all the time towards better welfare. Maybe not fast enough but there you go.
Cows can also be fed palm oil, which can't be good for them - although I guess most farmers are unconcerned about the effect on the cows long term health.
If farmers were paid fairly they could stop chasing yields and keep cows more naturally - some would but some wouldn't I know.

Oh and actually most of those calves (if heifers) will actually be retained on farm as herd replacements.
Live exports are unnecessary and there is new legislation going through to ban this.

Socialcarenope
Thanks!

Level of ignorance in this thread is astonishing. Have any of you EVER set foot on a dairy farm?

@twinkletoesimnot

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/29/mums-ask-when-cows-and-their-calves-separated-rise-ethical-milk-vegan

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/26/dairy-dirty-secret-its-still-cheaper-to-kill-male-calves-than-to-rear-them

Just two of many articles about this.