To feel sorry for child being disciplined?

[turtleturtle]

Or controlled it seems to me!

I'll try to explain as best I can without outting myself.

Of course, each parent needs to discipline their child as they see fit. You know your child best and what works for one, may not work for another...

However, I have a friend and her DP who's discipline style honestly seems so obsessive and controlling!
Her DC5 is your average 5 year old, not excessively naughty but by no means an angel, just like my own DC.

I was out with them last week (friend, her DC, her partner which is also her DC step parent, and my own DC who is the same age).

Their whole focus every single time is around the discipline. Their DC is constantly being told what to do, what is expected, and if they are slightly out of line they are threatened with consequences. In itself the model seems fair, but it is honestly CONSTANT.

There is no other conversation in between, no nice times or chats, the only time the child is spoken to is to be told what is expected or to be told what the punishment is.
It just seems so in-proportionate to the child's age and behaviour.

It makes things awkward too as I feel I am a bit more flexible with my DC, so I feel so sorry when my friends DC is constantly being told off for seemingly "kid" things.

They (my friend and her DP) are very much a tag team, again which seems like a good model, but it just comes across in such a coercive way. They just seem so cold and seem to have forgotten it's just a 5 year old and to also enjoy time together.

My friend and her DP both sit and cuddle, hold hands, talk etc, but this doesn't seem to be reflected to the DC.
5 year olds aren't robots and can't always sit quietly and behave impeccably and remember every instruction but it very much seems this is the outcome they are trying for.
It just makes me so sad as that DC has no other choice.

AIBU to feel sorry for the DC or should I just mind my own business?

@MsTSwift

Don’t understand the aggressive posts challenging the op for “judging” and asking for more examples. I know exactly what op means and it’s distressing to watch. It borders into abusive sadly.

We had friends abit like this with their first child small toddler yelled at for not “tidying up” their toys immediately. Sometimes it’s clueless insecure parenting they so terrified of their child being “naughty” and them being “soft” they go too far.

The new relationship and both constantly reprimanding the child sent chills down my spine - that seemed to be the dynamic of some of the recent horrific child abusers cases in the press.

came here to say this! everyone is always encouraged to report concerns about a child and the OP posted her concerns and is getting told she is sticking her nose in.

It sounds off to me too.

I think I was a stricter parent than most, and expected my dc to do what they were told. I found it very uncomfortable to be out and about with other parents who would speak to their dc and be completely ignored. But you can have rules and good control while being positive and nurturing. It’s not an either/or.

There is lots of research on parenting styles. Ideally you want to have firm boundaries and lots of warmth (it’s called authoritative).

Being firm/strict without the warmth is called authoritarian and it definitely creates issues.

But so does being warm and living without boundaries (permissive) , and having no warmth and no boundaries is neglect.

I find it quite chilling that the dynamic you describe seems to be led by the step parent. It brought to mind the Star Hobson case.

It’s less the constant telling about what to do. And more the fact you describe them as cold toward him and warm to each other that worries me. Like he is an outside in his own family.
In my opinion you can still be telling dc what to do, but be warm about it.
If you have a feeling they are cold towards him then it’s possible his emotional needs aren’t being met.
You could speak with nspcc to discuss your worries further and they would be able to guide you with things.
As opposed to on here where you will only get people reflecting back their own parenting styles.

We know people like this and I know exactly what you mean. We see a lot less of them now.

The tag team of instructions, criticisms and corrections used to put all of us on edge. Our own DC would get quieter and more subdued and theirs seemed to notice less and less, it was weird. If all a child ever hears is variations on “no”, “you’re wrong” and everything delivered as a bark it stops meaning anything. I could see his eyes glazing over while the rest of us got increasingly uncomfortable.

They both had similar childhoods but his mum used to hit him a lot so I think I’m comparison he thinks he’s soft and doing a good job.

It’s really sad.

There was a woman like this at a playgroup. Little girl was 2/3 at the time. She didn’t play with the other kids as the mum completely controlled her. The girl’s name is burned into my memory as the mum iterated it constantly. She only came a couple of times and I sometimes wonder what happened to the little girl.

I also had very controlling parenting and grew up in a lot of shame. I knew things were wrong and didn’t know the concept of unconditional love until I was and adult. If you can, please keep and eye and help model loving parenting and influence your friend where possible.

I have a relative who is like this with her son. It’s actually embarrassing when we go over and she picks on him for tiny things. She would also get annoyed with him when he was little for bizarre things like not having a lie in on a weekend, as if a toddler has any concept or control of this! It’s like there’s a total lack of understanding about child development. Worryingly, she’s a teacher. I don’t think you can do anything though.

Just remembered another. Dh was good friends with a woman and her partner. They split and we didn’t see her for several years. We saw her at a mutual friend’s house. The woman didn’t stop instructing her 8 yo do and complained constantly she was difficult and destructive.

I made it my mission to catch her doing something good, having never been praised myself. The girl went into a playhouse and her mum shouted over not to slam the door. When she came out, she didn’t slam it. So I shouted over something like ‘well done x that was very good’. The girl flashed me the biggest smile ever.

You could try this approach. Praise her ds every time he does something ‘good’.

@bonetiredwithtwins

To be honest it may well be performance parenting when they have an audience and they are nothing like this at home

I think it's very judgmental of you to be discussing it on here and really none of your business how someone parents their child

Do you walk around with your eyes closed and don’t have an opinion on anything? What an odd comment.

Re other cultures:- I know lots of people from other cultures who are fairly strict but encourage their children to socialise, interact with people of all ages, and be confident. The kids are loved and valued.

There’s a huge difference between nagging you child to death, making them scared of their own shadow and being strict with high expectations.

I do know what you mean. I used to work in a school, and while I didn't grow up here, I assume this is a common British thing (?) since it seemed like all the staff were like this to the kids. They would be corrected for the dumbest things like having their hands in their pockets on a cold day. What's wrong with that? Just little things, all the time. My British husband can be this way with our children. It seems too much.

But no, don't do anything about this. Their kids, their style, their choice. Just a bummer IMO.

I did similar with the child we know @Mummyoflittledragon

He’s very practical and logical where his parents aren’t and he’s very good at fixing things and putting them back together. He’s also very observant and if you praise him in any way he absolutely glows. I doubt they ever noticed but at least he got some positive attention and it made me feel slightly better.

I don’t know - there is such a tricky balance to strike between being overly strict and letting children run amok. I’m very much a “pick your battles” parent and sometimes I pick the wrong ones (I can’t be the only parent?!)

Sometimes when we are out and about I need to be more bossy because we are out snd I’m trying to teach DS3 to behave in a socially acceptable manner. Sometimes when we are with friends I will give in for the easy life, so everyone can have a nice time and not listen to a tantrum.

It can be a hard balance. With the head banging example it’s tricky too - usually I would just say “you could bang your head🤷🏻‍♀️“ then leave it. But maybe they could hurt themselves badly or had banged their head earlier or something.

Sending to bed as soon as getting home is horrible though! No sweets sounds a v reasonable and normal punishment!

@Mummyoflittledragon

That’s really lovely

I think controlling parenting can come from insecurity and fear. I have a lovely friend who keeps her toddler on a much tighter leash than I do mine and is prone to shouting “danger, danger” about things that don’t bother me at all. But I know why she’s like that and it’s not really doing any harm. I’ve become a bit more risk averse through spending time together and she’s chilled out about mud and mess and let’s him run ahead a bit more. She adores him and she’s terrified something will happen to him, she doesn’t resent him and he’s not living in a prison of obedience.

Dh is a nag. His father was v authoritarian and even though it drove him to leave home, he repeats the same patterns with ours. I know you're not meant to undermine each other, but he's wrong. So I do. I also have 20 year s of experience around kids, and see the effects of lotsb of parenting styles, which trumps his 'do as I say, because I'm the dad' approach.

I've been trying to teach him for years, but he won't listen. He gets a bee in his bonnet about stupid shit like ds not fastening his coat, so it slides off his shoulders. Who cares? Not my shoulders getting cold. Or I'll say:"ds, you have hw to do" and he'll jump in with :"haven't you done your hw? I bet other kids have. No xbox if you don't do it. " Even though he hasn't even bothered to check ds' stuff until I mention it.

I've told him he acts like a shit supply teacher and that he shouldn't be surprised if the kids respond accordingly. I know it comes from his own upbringing and a complete lack of understanding of kids, but I also had an authoritarian dad and I'm not letting him get away with it.

If a kid is constantly criticised for how they act or try to do something, how are they ever supposed to learn to trust themselves and their approach to things? My mum corrected/controlled everything I attempted, like the way I cut up tomatoes or packed my bag or did my hair or painted a flower. Despite being intelligent and capable I have struggled so badly with needing to do things 'perfectly' and being too overwhelmed to even start tasks. Kids need freedom to make mistakes and learn the consequences of things. So what if the kid bangs his head or gets cold wrists. It's fine and important to have boundaries, but constant nitpicking over trivial things is damaging.

Oh god @Shitandhills you’re like my mum

She’s amazing. A brilliant mum, a wonderful friend, creative, energetic, intelligent, enthusiastic, inspiring, elegant, thoughtful, inquisitive, had an awesome career making life changing differences to her patients, so very beautiful.

She’s in her late 60s and her whole life has been plagued by uncertainty and lack of confidence as the voices of her fucking horrible parents in her head tell her she’s thick, lazy, clumsy and not going to amount to much.

They had their own significant struggles but that doesn’t excuse the damage they caused her, nothing would. She moved continents as soon as she turned 18 and they’re both dead but the shadow is too long and no one else can properly counteract a lifetime of criticism and chipping away.

I grew up with this.
No praise. Being picked up about inconsequential shit all the time - boils down to having a very controlling mother. No moderation of this as I became a teenager. Unsurprisingly, I ran for the hills at the earliest opportunity.

I used to have a friend who was like this with her daughter. Constantly nit picked at her daughter about every little thing. Little affection or genuine connection. Child is now 6th form and is still controlled down to the nth degree. I genuinely feel sorry for the child but I know that she will run for the hills just as I did.

Mother is similarly controlling with her own friendships. We are no longer friends because my boundaries have improved and I no longer want to be controlled.

@Giraffesandbottoms
Unfortunately it was only the once. We don’t live in the same country. But I felt for the little girl.

@AnneLovesGilbert
That’s really sad but at least the child will have noticed and somewhere inside it will have helped.

I had a friend, whose mum was so loving and caring. I just wanted her to be my mum. Unfortunately we weren’t very good friends and that died off. But I do remember one day, we’d have been about 8, and she asked us to sit next to her and she put her arm around both of us. I wanted to stay there forever. I felt so safe.

I also had my mother’s voice constantly in my head whirring round like a tape on loop. Therapy stopped that. I am also a raging perfectionist. Dd has learned it off me and I’ve had to quash the urge to help her. This was all messed up as she needed help with the homework in primary. Really difficult crafting projects (and there were a lot of these) like make a boat age 5, which actually stifled her creativity rather than helping it as I came up with the ideas and we did it together under my direction. This gave her the belief she could never be good enough. She is 13 and in yr9 and finally got her own confidence to do her artwork herself without asking others, thanks to her teacher.

@MsTSwift

Don’t understand the aggressive posts challenging the op for “judging” and asking for more examples. I know exactly what op means and it’s distressing to watch. It borders into abusive sadly.

We had friends abit like this with their first child small toddler yelled at for not “tidying up” their toys immediately. Sometimes it’s clueless insecure parenting they so terrified of their child being “naughty” and them being “soft” they go too far.

The new relationship and both constantly reprimanding the child sent chills down my spine - that seemed to be the dynamic of some of the recent horrific child abusers cases in the press.

Yes, the fact the mum is in a new relationship made me think of the recent child abuse cases too.

I did go through a period of constantly instructing/ correcting DD in a similar way, as we were having problems with tantrums and I found she did better if I reminded her of our plans and how she needed to behave eg: saying we could go to the park after school but would need to leave at X time, so my initial thought was that your friend was having a similar issue. However, I also tried to praise good behaviour as well so it wasn’t all negative. It sounds like your friend is negative all the time, though, and the new partner makes this more of a concern.

I struggle sometimes with this as my DC is a lot louder and more fidgety than I was as a child (I was a very well-behaved, quiet child who could be taken anywhere). I still have ingrained notions of 'children should be seen and not heard' and 'a good child is one who you don't know is there' because the worst crime when I was a child was to annoy or get in the way of anyone else around you. My mother was very loving and caring, but she was much younger than I was when she became a parent and I think suffered from a lack of self-confidence in her early parenting years. She viewed our behaviour as very much reflecting on her rather than being a work in progress. I've tried to take a step back with my DC and view teaching them good behaviour as being a process rather than an instant thing so a public tantrum or misbehaving on a playdate isn't the end of the world and doesn't need to be deal with in an excessively punitive way.

That said, I agree that the new relationship and lack of warmth towards and 'scapegoating' of this child are red flags so I'd keep an eye on things if you can.

It's always a tricky topic because every single parent is going to have their own ways and methods, and that's the beauty of people and families.

I know many people with children, some times I see things and think ooo that's great I will try it, and sometimes I see things and think, nope that's not for us. That's all fine, but I don't often see something and think ohhh poor little kid! You know?

Oh poor child. Sounds suffocating and totally joyless.

Also I totally get it, sometimes my DC is a right pain and we have to be a bit more consistent and 'on it' with our approach.
This often focusses on remembering to recognise a lot of the positives as some of you suggested, which saves me sounding like a broken nagging record, and I have definitely fallen in to that trap from time to time

I agree with you in theory but I also think you can't possibly see the whole picture and even if you could, you don't get to tell other parents how to behave with their kids.

Sometimes you don't agree with someone's methods but the results are entirely different from what you expect. There's a chance the kid will end up feeling very secure and loved because he knows what to expect all the time. There's no one right way to parent, as you know.