What about... Still enjoying Boris' downfall Part 4. The one with the report released?

[jgw1]

Part 4

Sorry, I forgot to add that I mentioned the subject of Johnson to an elderly neighbour who I occasionally visit as he lives alone, and I am sure is a paid-up tory supporter. I didn't push the matter, but he declared that it is not as if any of the PM's mistakes and lies were about anything serious. I know many would disagree, but I wonder how widely that was believed at election time?

I think I heard it described as the "white van man" phenomenon - the idea that the public like someone who gets around the law and who blags his way out of corners, in preference to what is seen as the holy self-righteousness of someone like Theresa May, the political greyness of someone like John Major or the sheer arrogance of Tony Blair.

I get what you’re saying. It’s just not relevant to the situation the thread is discussing.

Many many years ago, civil servants requested hospitality for panel members of an arms length body as well as providing other secretariat services.

Completely irrelevant

They did considerably more than "sort hospitality". It was they who wrote officially to establishments we inspected with details of what would be required, and they issued reports - both under the name of the minister involved. When not servicing the committee they were E.Os in the relevant ministry. As others have pointed out, this was not uncommon - especially for smaller bodies which could not warrant a permanent full-time staff.

I’m not sure why any of that is relevant. Plenty of actual civil servants have said No 10 culture doesn’t represent their experiences. The Civil Service is a massive organisation that includes things like land registry and companies house, so this idea that you can draw conclusions about the entire operation from a few meetings some years ago is odd.

Although, who knows, maybe the reason for all the delays at DVLA is staff drinking on the job??

@FlorianusI said I worked with civil servants, preparing inspections and reports. They serviced the committee, providing hospitality - including lunches and (when we were away on business) hotel accommodation

You may not want to reveal the quangos you were involved with which is fair enough but please specify the time period that you are basing your recollections on.

You don't think it is because they find the alternative (the opposition) too unappealing?

Yes, I think that many people were voting against Corbyn rather than for Johnson, and also wanted to believe in Johnson’s Cakeism. Now it looks as though he has taken them for fools. Arthur Daley and Del Boy are all very well until you are the one being conned.

There are other areas of concern really. Liz Truss is opining about Ukraine on TV. God help us, this us what we've got.

Do we really need to go through all of this again, presumably because you didn't pay attention the first time around?
No I didn't - you make things up even more frequently than Johnson.

The correct MN reply to this is I believe: Do you mean to be so rude?

My opinion, and you are at liberty to disagree, is that you formed an opinion but declared that it applied across the board. Now when you are challenged, you don't want to substantiate your remark, but degenerate into personal attacks.

Since your second hand experience of the Civil Service is nothing like my, and other's first hand experience, it led me to question what other statements you are making as though they were fact are in practice just a personal opinion.

But I am about to do a Clavinova and go out. Maybe just for the morning, maybe all day.

@Florianus yes people find some politicians stuffy but nope I’m not buying it that most people want Del Boy to run the country

So why do you think the electorate votes for toxic characters?

Sadly some you’ll find at least part of the answer to that question in the parallel thread asking if adults should stay informed.

if you choose to go “low information”, and then possibly vote based on brand recognition there’s a fair chance you’ll get those that have made the most noise/been on TV a lot will pick up a lot of votes..

@Binkybix

I get what you’re saying. It’s just not relevant to the situation the thread is discussing.

Many many years ago, civil servants requested hospitality for panel members of an arms length body as well as providing other secretariat services.

Completely irrelevant

It was relevant because the overwhelming majority of those who attended the events that SG is investigating are believed to be civil servants.

I wonder if Putin looks at Johnson and thinks ‘aha kompromat, I can control him’ or whether he just thinks ‘I can’t be bothered to waste time on somebody who is so capable of fucking things up by himself’.

It was relevant because the overwhelming majority of those who attended the events that SG is investigating are believed to be civil servants.

The overwhelming number of people working for DVLA in Swansea are civil servants.

[quote 22itsallnew]**@FlorianusI said I worked with civil servants, preparing inspections and reports. They serviced the committee, providing hospitality - including lunches and (when we were away on business) hotel accommodation

You may not want to reveal the quangos you were involved with which is fair enough but please specify the time period that you are basing your recollections on.[/quote]
I served on three QUANGOs over a period of 30 years and retired 5 years ago. Does that help?

@merrymouse

It was relevant because the overwhelming majority of those who attended the events that SG is investigating are believed to be civil servants.

The overwhelming number of people working for DVLA in Swansea are civil servants.

Did they attend the parties, or is that just another attempt to divert the discussion?

The overwhelming number of people working for DVLA in Swansea are civil servants.

Actually, who knows, they might be agency staff for all I know, but the organisation is civil service.

[quote 22itsallnew]@Florianus yes people find some politicians stuffy but nope I’m not buying it that most people want Del Boy to run the country[/quote]
So why have they voted for him in so many elections?

Ref lowering of standards, the Tory leader of a local council has rolled up on the local politics programme that follows the ex Marr show. He looks as if he fell out of bed minutes before being on TV. Unshaven. No tie. Unironed shirt. We are an international laughing stock. Wonder why.

Peregrina:
My opinion, and you are at liberty to disagree, is that you formed an opinion but declared that it applied across the board.

Where did I make such a declaration? You are not going to say because, one again you are just inventing things. At this point I will remind you that personal attacks are against the T&Cs of Mumsnet.

@merrymouse

The overwhelming number of people working for DVLA in Swansea are civil servants.

Actually, who knows, they might be agency staff for all I know, but the organisation is civil service.

So totally irrelevant and a failed attempt to divert discussion away from Partygate.

The Prime Minister broke public health legislation and mislead Parliament to cover it up.

I have zero interest in what CS ordinarily eat and drink.

Johnson will do whatever Putin tells him to do.
amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/just-what-does-the-uk-russia-report-say-key-points-explained

@Zonder

Any more wild wonderings?

Really a shame you couldn't read my whole post to help you understand with a context. Never mind @Florianus we know it's hard for you.

Carefully, Flo might start thinking you unhinged as well, although from them I assume its a complement.

I think the real issue here is that the majority of people have realised they were gullible fools for hiding at home hysterically and wringing their hands over whether it was ‘allowed’ to go for more than one walk a day. People realise they’ve been scammed by the media frenzy and the contagious spread of fear. They feel foolish and angry and want someone to blame. BJ has always been a tosser, absolutely only out for himself. It’s hardly his ‘downfall’ - he’ll always be rich, comfortable and privileged.

^Did they attend the parties, or is that just another attempt to divert the discussion?*

As should be obvious, the point is that your sweeping remarks about civil servants aren’t relevant. The civil service is a huge organisation.

The parties have caused concern, anger and distress because of the involvement of the PM and people appointed by him.

This thread would be a lot better if we all ignored Flo. I am going to try to from now on

Agree. Civil servants arranging hospitality for the people who would not volunteer their time without getting fancy food is a complete non-sequitur as related to this situation. In fact, it reflects more badly on the people who were demanding it.