To think it’s disingenuous to say breastfeeding is free?

[Jerrui]

When pregnant encountered lots and lots of breastfeeding promotion- often it’s cited it being free as a benefit.

I have personally found as soon as you actually have a baby and are feeding it there is absolutely zero support. In my area there is no infant feeding team etc just community midwife who told me to substitute BF with FF at two weeks old when baby failed to regain birth weight.

I have spent hundreds of pounds on lactation consultant, double electric pump, milk storage, trying to keep breastfeeding going.

I have added formula top up and was shocked how cheap it is. We got bottles for free in those Emma’s diary type packs, and Aldi formula costs £2 a week.

I think trying to promote breastfeeding as a more economic option to pregnant women is stupid.
I feel actually public funds would be much better spend on training and recruiting to provide actual support to mothers trying to breastfeed, rather than health promotion with misleading, simplistic and dumbed down messages.
I feel it’s no wonder breastfeeding is mainly the preserve of the middle classes when you have to invest so much money to get any help!

I agree that money spent on REAL support for breastfeeding mothers would certainly not be wasted!

In the area I used to live there was a charity organisation called The Breastfeeding Network.
I was referred to them after my LO was losing weight in the first 6 days of his life (which we discovered was due to tongue-tie). Apart from the midwifes and tongue tie expert which was provided through NHS, the only other support I was given was through this charity (and family support). The team of people who worked for this "Network" were amazing, so helpful. But as far as I know they are only available in one area of the UK, which is a real shame. If they had the money and facilities to expand nationwide I'm sure so many more mothers would get the support they need (and for free!). I'm positive if they were not there to support me I would have given up with breastfeeding.
For the first 6 weeks of my Lo's life I had to feed him, top up with expressed breast milk, and after he had fallen asleep go and express more ready for next feed EVERY 3 HOURS. I barely slept.
He had problems with reflux, and a tongue tie re-growth which is rare, and had to have little op to get it cut for the second time at around 4 months old. I would not have managed to exclusively breastfeed without this charity organisation that helped, they were just full of expertise and emotionally supportive, came to my house numerous times. They even ran coffee groups to meet other moms. Just wish they had something like this all over the UK. I was able to breastfeed for approx 14 months... due to the support I had!!

If breast feedi g is so hard, how did our mother abd grandmother's manage? How do women in developing countries manage without even community midwifes? Maybe think how privileged women are in the UK before moaning about spend etc.

@Mirw

If breast feedi g is so hard, how did our mother abd grandmother's manage? How do women in developing countries manage without even community midwifes? Maybe think how privileged women are in the UK before moaning about spend etc.

Another person misunderstanding the thread. Nobody is moaning about it.

What probably happened is that lots of mothers were unable to nourish their babies and ended up dying. I don't mean to be negative but fact is not 100% mothers would have been able to breastfeed. Their only options would be to substitute with cows/ goats milk, risking an infection in the infant.
That's like saying you shouldn't cause such a fuss and go the GP for antibiotics, they didn't used to have them back in the day, how did all the people survive back then?
And support should rightfully be worldwide, not just in the UK. ALL mothers deserve support, regardless of where they live.

@TheRemotePart thanks! I’m glad it worked for you in the end. DD had a bad tongue tie and we had to wait 3 weeks for it to be cut. My milk also took a week to come in due to blood loss following an EMCS. By the time tongue tie was cut DD was used to bottles and has only ever chewed my nipples and got nothing out. I sought support from the infant feeding team who told me to do 3 days of lying in bed doing skin to skin, I did what I could but that didn’t work because I had to pump 8 times a day to keep my supply up and also had to get in sleep when I could plus feed DD with bottles and wash and sterilise everything… nipple shields haven’t worked unfortunately. I also sought support from la Leche league, nct and an online Facebook group but nobody could help, they just kept talking about positioning but whatever position DD is in she usually cries because she won’t open wide enough when she’s nose to nipple, or she chews.

I was really down every time i tried breastfeeding so I have been exclusively pumping (with formula top ups due to low supply) but I’m finding it too hard to pump and want to spend more time with my baby so I’m thinking of stopping, I’ve just been wondering if it’s worth one last crack at direct breastfeeding before I do.

I think breastfeeding has been turned into an industry, @Mirw. There will always be entrepreneurs ready to turn human activity into money.

Just because there are all those heavily advertised products out there doesn't mean you need them or have to buy them.

Having had my babies in the 90s an dearly 2000s, and being now aware of dozens of babies diagnosed with tongue tie, I am tempted to wonder how babies of old managed too.There has been a HUGE increase in tongue tie.

medicalrepublic.com.au/untangling-tongue-tie-epidemic/10813

This is an interesting article illustrating the ways that too much medical intervention and expert opinion applied to breastfeeding can be a very bad thing.

Breastfeeding was free for me which is why I decided to persevere and make it work. I know it’s not easy for some and both mine were early and small so took a good 6 weeks to establish but once we’d managed it it was great!

For me it is free. I never planned on bf but I found it so easy. I haven’t pumped so no bottles there ect. And I haven’t needed support so for sone people it is free everyone’s different. If I hadn’t got on with bf I would have ff. mainly bf as I’ve found it easier than I would ff.

@mathanxiety

I think breastfeeding has been turned into an industry, *@Mirw*. There will always be entrepreneurs ready to turn human activity into money.

Just because there are all those heavily advertised products out there doesn't mean you need them or have to buy them.

Having had my babies in the 90s an dearly 2000s, and being now aware of dozens of babies diagnosed with tongue tie, I am tempted to wonder how babies of old managed too.There has been a HUGE increase in tongue tie.

medicalrepublic.com.au/untangling-tongue-tie-epidemic/10813

This is an interesting article illustrating the ways that too much medical intervention and expert opinion applied to breastfeeding can be a very bad thing.

There was a declared (and rather obvious) conflict of interest referenced at the end of that 'study'.

2 nursing bras was all I needed and I’m definitely not middle class.

Used the clothes I already had and a v cushion rather than a special nursing one

Stubbornness is what got me through blood blisters and thrush on my nipples

Fed both of my girls for 2 years

What probably happened is that lots of mothers were unable to nourish their babies and ended up dying. I don't mean to be negative but fact is not 100% mothers would have been able to breastfeed. Their only options would be to substitute with cows/ goats milk, risking an infection in the infant.

There were options besides goat/cow milk.

There was a lot of wet nursing. My mother's childhood memories from the Irish countryside in the 30s and 40s include neighbours wet nursing babies when twins were born, and in particular an Irish Traveler woman whose baby had died from galactosemia wet nursing several babies in the locality in exchange for food for the rest of her family. Wet nursing was not unusual.

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/breast-versus-bottle-debate-raged-in-19th-century-ireland-1.4008769

The breast vs bottle debate in Ireland dating from the 1850s.

Babies died from a lot of ailments until the advent of electricity, running water, better hygiene and better knowledge of hygiene, access to better quality food for mothers, and antibiotics. Babies of women who had to work (the poor) often wasted away because the mothers couldn't feed them enough while out at work and the paid childcare options were often hellholes. The assertion that there was a high rate of infant death just from difficulties breastfeeding is not accurate.

I have a cookbook dating from 1976 which contains instructions for reconstituting evaporated milk with different quantities of water and added sugar for 'formula' - the word comes from ratios of milk:water:sugar which would be calculated by the doctor or midwife. My exH 's family were all fed this godawful substance from birth, in the 1950s and 60s (in the US), along with orange juice to counteract the resulting constipation. While they all survived, this was far from ideal.

And in addition, babies were introduced to solids much earlier, and also fed powdered cereal mixed into bottles.

I was referring to thousands of years ago with my comment, well before 1850's

Thousands of years ago there was a lot more than just difficulties breastfeeding to cause infant mortality.

Personally I would agree it is free. It’s on tap when your baby needs it. I was lucky and my baby took to it straight away and never needed support.

@planteen have you exclusively pumped out of interest? it was mostly necessary for me. The first double electric pump my husband bought from boots as an emergency because I was leaving the hospital and needed to pump to build a supply as my milk wasn’t in and DD wouldn’t latch, we didn’t have time to look for second hand. I actually forgot to say in the end that one wasn’t really up to full time pumping so I now rent a hospital grade one.

The hands free pumps were needed so I could go out anywhere if I was going to be out longer than 2.5 hours.

The flanges weren’t all necessary, turns out I have elastic nipples so that’s why none of them seemed to work, so I tried Pumpin pals for elastic nipples which are expensive so think it was more than £40 for them all. In the end Pumpin pals didn’t really work either as they rely on suction and I have to do hands on pumping so they kept coming off, so I just had to use a fixed flange which I think led to my clogged ducts and mastitis.

Nipple shields were worth a try to see if I could get breastfeeding established after DD’s tongue tie was cut.

My nipples ended up wrecked by the pumps and the silver nipple cups and cream definitely helped.

I had to store my milk somewhere. The first bottles I bought were too small so I had to buy more. I needed the brush because the fat from the milk sticks to the sides and my normal cleaning supplies weren’t getting it off (the brush still doesn’t get it all off so I’m thinking of trying a different brush but reluctant to spend more).

The pumping bras were used to hold my hands free pumps while I was out.

If you’ve had mastitis you’ll know you’ll try everything to get rid of the clogs. The haakaa and Epsom salts trick was recommended and the massager was bought only after I’d tried lots and lots of hand massage, other forms of vibration, lecithin (forgot I bought that too), dangle pumping, hand expression in the bath etc. I’m not sure if the massager worked or it was something else but the relief when the clogs went each time was immense!

If I knew about exclusive pumping in advance I could have saved money for sure by being more savvy about my purchases but the NHS never mentioned it as an option antenatally.

@kikisparks aw bless you, I really sympathise.
I NEVER managed to pump anywhere near the amount they asked. When are you supposed to sleep/eat/wash ?
But listen, combi feeding saved my journey/sanity - when the baby was able to latch- I was able to drop formula feeds and fully BF
So just keep the supply going ( keep that 12/3am one!) and you can work on it later, if you choose to introduce formula.
It was actually a blessing , baby taking a bottle of formula, as I ended up in hospital last week and pumped to keep my supply going , but I ended up Covid + and no one could collect, let alone store my milk! So DH was able to feed baby at least!

If I choose to combi feed - and then drop the formula , you can ge the HV to come out and weigh the baby every week so you know your supply is doing it’s job.
I found once baby is weaning, it’s a lot less stressful!

It depends, I spent next to nothing on BF, few cheap nursing bras, an aldi Haakka and a tube of Lansinoh, never had any issues though so I didn't need to spend anything.

I suppose the distinction is formula will always cost something, breastfeeding can be free or near enough free if you are lucky.

@Somethingsnappy

Between 2004 and 2013, the rate of frenotomy increased by 90% in Canada.5 In the United States, an 870% increase in frenotomy rates is documented between 1997-2012.

These figures are not made up. The fad is also enriching tongue tie fixers in the UK.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/10/02/posterior-tongue-tie-the-internet-phenomenon-driving-a-lucrative-private-industry/

Tongue tie fixing at the rate it is being fixed in the US is a huge money maker.

You can compare the two articles if you like.
Here's an excerpt:
Over recent years the concept of “posterior” tongue tie as a reason for feeding difficulties in newborns appears to have gained popularity, particularly among various online parenting forums and breastfeeding support networks. Definition varies, but the concept is generally thought to represent a tight non-visible submucosal band of tissue at the very base of the ventral tongue that is palpated rather than seen. This is very different from the classically reported “anterior” tongue tie which is usually easily visible and simple to divide. As yet, there is no definitive anatomical study or robust definition within the literature, nor evidence to prove a causal relationship of posterior tongue tie with feeding difficulties in affected babies. For this reason, posterior tongue tie is generally not recognised or treated currently by professionals within the NHS setting.

Despite this, there appears to be a large industry of private practitioners in the UK that have emerged who offer to deal with the ailment, usually for a fee of several hundreds of pounds. A quick online search uncovers scores of private practitioners willing to travel to assess and treat newborns for posterior tongue tie, offering hope to struggling mothers desperately researching online for ways to help their baby feed better. Proponents advocate division of the non-visible band, using deep submucosal dissection at the base of the lingual frenulum with scissors or laser. This is a much more invasive dissection than the traditional anterior tongue tie division offered at NHS clinics. Without good evidence to back up treatment decisions, we believe that such practitioners are not practicing ethically and are potentially exploiting a vulnerable population group who would be willing to try (or pay) anything to help their newborn baby feed better. It is our opinion that offering posterior tongue tie as an explanation for these feeding difficulties has no role in current evidence based medical practice.

The overall gist of what I'm saying here is that fads are alive and well in breastfeeding and infant feeding in general. This is a result of clever marketing, creating and advertising a problem and the product that will fix it. Everything from special equipment to actual cutting of tissue has a price.

In regard to the tongue tie fad, it's interesting that so many MNers howl with indignation at the idea of male circumcision but don't bat an eyelid at snipping tissue in the mouth in response to a condition whose existence has not been proven to be a problem.

I breastfed 3 kids and it didn't cost me a penny
Support is free if you do your research.
Milk storage, pumps etc aren't necessary, you have boobs that do both of those things

[quote mathanxiety]@Somethingsnappy

Between 2004 and 2013, the rate of frenotomy increased by 90% in Canada.5 In the United States, an 870% increase in frenotomy rates is documented between 1997-2012.

These figures are not made up. The fad is also enriching tongue tie fixers in the UK.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/10/02/posterior-tongue-tie-the-internet-phenomenon-driving-a-lucrative-private-industry/

Tongue tie fixing at the rate it is being fixed in the US is a huge money maker.

You can compare the two articles if you like.
Here's an excerpt:
Over recent years the concept of “posterior” tongue tie as a reason for feeding difficulties in newborns appears to have gained popularity, particularly among various online parenting forums and breastfeeding support networks. Definition varies, but the concept is generally thought to represent a tight non-visible submucosal band of tissue at the very base of the ventral tongue that is palpated rather than seen. This is very different from the classically reported “anterior” tongue tie which is usually easily visible and simple to divide. As yet, there is no definitive anatomical study or robust definition within the literature, nor evidence to prove a causal relationship of posterior tongue tie with feeding difficulties in affected babies. For this reason, posterior tongue tie is generally not recognised or treated currently by professionals within the NHS setting.

Despite this, there appears to be a large industry of private practitioners in the UK that have emerged who offer to deal with the ailment, usually for a fee of several hundreds of pounds. A quick online search uncovers scores of private practitioners willing to travel to assess and treat newborns for posterior tongue tie, offering hope to struggling mothers desperately researching online for ways to help their baby feed better. Proponents advocate division of the non-visible band, using deep submucosal dissection at the base of the lingual frenulum with scissors or laser. This is a much more invasive dissection than the traditional anterior tongue tie division offered at NHS clinics. Without good evidence to back up treatment decisions, we believe that such practitioners are not practicing ethically and are potentially exploiting a vulnerable population group who would be willing to try (or pay) anything to help their newborn baby feed better. It is our opinion that offering posterior tongue tie as an explanation for these feeding difficulties has no role in current evidence based medical practice.

The overall gist of what I'm saying here is that fads are alive and well in breastfeeding and infant feeding in general. This is a result of clever marketing, creating and advertising a problem and the product that will fix it. Everything from special equipment to actual cutting of tissue has a price.

In regard to the tongue tie fad, it's interesting that so many MNers howl with indignation at the idea of male circumcision but don't bat an eyelid at snipping tissue in the mouth in response to a condition whose existence has not been proven to be a problem.[/quote]
This is interesting.

I don’t disagree with you about the lack of evidence for some of these procedures, mathanxiety but I don’t think problems with feeding are ‘created’ for advertising purposes. It is very much the case that quite a lot of babies and mothers struggle with bf and that this can go on for a long time.

So if it’s not always tongue tie causing problems, then what is it?

Yanbu at all. Hideously expensive if you need support which is woefully lacking. I spent about £800 on breastfeeding mostly on necessary private medical treatment. Honestly the best money I ever spent though. The bond and love I have with my babies (one of whom is currently asleep in my arms after feeding to sleep) is priceless. I wouldn’t have got this bottle feeding (other people might but i personally wouldn’t). Breastfeeding can be free and easy but it often isn’t.

Yanbu the idea that it is 'free' affects public health policy: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23855027/

@Watchingpeppa12

Well… it is cheaper than formula feeding, it is not £2 a week for Aldi formula if you feed solely formula, it’s about £10 a week rising to about £15/£20 a week as baby gets bigger! Plus the need for steriliser, bottles, change of teats etc so yes it is free in comparison to that, you could argue lactate consultants etc but not many can afford that!

This.

Is this real?? Jesus I can’t stop laughing. Spending all that money on something woman have been doing since the start of time.