To think it’s disingenuous to say breastfeeding is free?

[Jerrui]

When pregnant encountered lots and lots of breastfeeding promotion- often it’s cited it being free as a benefit.

I have personally found as soon as you actually have a baby and are feeding it there is absolutely zero support. In my area there is no infant feeding team etc just community midwife who told me to substitute BF with FF at two weeks old when baby failed to regain birth weight.

I have spent hundreds of pounds on lactation consultant, double electric pump, milk storage, trying to keep breastfeeding going.

I have added formula top up and was shocked how cheap it is. We got bottles for free in those Emma’s diary type packs, and Aldi formula costs £2 a week.

I think trying to promote breastfeeding as a more economic option to pregnant women is stupid.
I feel actually public funds would be much better spend on training and recruiting to provide actual support to mothers trying to breastfeed, rather than health promotion with misleading, simplistic and dumbed down messages.
I feel it’s no wonder breastfeeding is mainly the preserve of the middle classes when you have to invest so much money to get any help!

It cost pennies for me to breastfeed, initially a couple of bras and a box of pads a week. Never brought or used a pump or bottles. I consider myself very lucky and feel for women who don’t have such an easy time of it.

“ I’ve also heard: breastfeeding is only free if a woman’s time is worth nothing.”

Hmm - sort of but for many people it takes no more effort/time to breast feed than to bottle feed so while it is undoubtedly true that care roles are undervalued it has little to do with comparative costs of two methods of feeding. Breast feeding can be a massive pain in the neck in some ways. It’s very tying, particularly if your baby won’t take a bottle (not overly uncommon in my circle of friends) & it is one of the things likely leads to mums being responsible for doing all night feeds and doing a greater share of childcare. For me in-spite of that it was definitely worth doing & I felt like after the first 2-3 months it became a much easier option than formula. We could go out all day with child in sling & a few nappies, spare babygro, a muslin & wipes with my purse in a small backpack. There was no real limits on where we went and no consideration given to how we would warm up milk/how long you could use it for before you chucked it etc. I could feed the baby absolutely anywhere as soon as she wanted to be fed and if she was ever upset she also used feeding as a comfort. I would go every couple of weeks and watch a film in the afternoon with friends on maternity leave at same time, go out for dinners or fell walking with OH, head to the beach Orr take train to nearby places for day out with toddler and it was blissfully easy.

I also found formula feeding out and about very easy. Used the ready made stuff, didn’t warm it, had mam bottles so easily sterilised in the microwave. I had the same sized baby bag as the bf mums so didn’t take up any more room. Also very easy to buy if you are out and get caught (as I have done when I left the whole baby bag at home by accident)!!

The mam bottles are sterilised for 48hrs once done and you don’t need to sterilise at all after 6 months. Had loads of impromptu days out, even an unplanned overnighted and was no problem at all. I actually found it quicker to open a carton, pour into a bottle and feed quicker than getting my boob out - but this was winter so lots of layers!!

If you ignore the prep time (which is much higher for bottles), the time taken to feed a baby whether from bf-ing or from ff-ing is the same. The only difference is that ff-ing allows someone other than the mother to do it. By analogy, I guess that other person's time is free too?

Bf-ing means it is more difficult for the mother and the baby to be apart, when the baby is little, say before 6 months. After that, they are probably already being weaned and started mixed feeding and are pretty portable.

I’ve also heard: breastfeeding is only free if a woman’s time is worth nothing
Hmm only true if I could get someone else to bottle feed- breastfeeding is far more efficient as my hands were free for the phone or remote

If you reduce breastfeeding to an economic activity (which is precisely what the "breastfeeding is free" brigade tries to do when they say that), then breastfeeding is massively costly for any significantly economically active woman. I could make more than ten times over the same money by working, in the time it would take me to breastfeed (especially considering how tiring breastfeeding 24/7 really is, and the resulting productivity drop in other activities).

But the "breastfeeding is free" economic argument is pure bollocks. It only applies to the chronically unemployed, and it's massively insulting to assume that's what all mothers are.

Breastfeeding is only really time consuming in the very early days, when almost all mothers are on maternity leave anyway. I went back to work when my baby was 7 months old and for the first couple of months I was expressing twice a day to provide milk for the childminder. He is now 9 months old and we have just reduced to one milk feed during the day and I breastfeed him in the morning and before bed.

You are right that it is very labour intensive in the early days though. I feel sorry for women in America, where there is a lot of pressure to breastfeed but they don't get proper maternity leave. I'm in a bumpers group on Facebook and a lot of the American mums went back to work when their babies were a couple of months old and just seemed to be pumping round the clock as well as trying to work full-time (not to mention the lack of sleep). I genuinely don't know how they do it.

@blueshoes

Also it isn’t free because you need to buy more food for yourself in order to support it - it’s dangerous to bf without consuming extra calories.

I don't think the expense of extra food is a concern. I have done extended bf-ing for 2 dcs who vehemently preferred the breast over the bottle. I don't recall my food intake being very different at all throughout. If anything, I was trying to lose weight.

That is YOUR experience.

Others have a very different experience. We are not all identikit robots experiencing life identically, with identically functioning bodies. Surely you can realise that if you stop and think about how people you know have varying experiences and health issues? We're not all the same!

I was ravenous the whole time and spent way more on food than I usually do, yet never once did I feel full or satisfied. It was torturous. And I spent way more than I would have done on tins of formula - adult food is more expensive. I accept you had a totally different experience, though.

I don't think it's helpful to dismiss other peoples' experiences if they don't concur with your own. Some women are lucky and find breast-feeding easy. Many others don't.

There are lots of different issues and experiences we can have with bf, from loving it and finding it easy/ quick/cheap and convenient, to hating it/it being expensive/ridiculously time-consuming/painful/impossible. That's a fact.

@Butteryflakycrust83

I saw something on twitter this morning that said ' breastfeeding is only free if you think a woman's time, bodies and care work is worthless.

This little phrase is second only to “fed is best” in the list of stupid things people say in the boring baby feeding debates

@blueshoes

Exclusive breastfeeding is recommended until the age of 2. Clearly this will have job/career impact for many women in the moment but also for the future.

I don't think this is a real concern. I took the one year maternity and did extended bf-ing for both dcs. I doubt if many women if any are exclusively bf-ing after a year. Most would already have moved to cows milk after one, and bf-ing the baby for comfort, not nutrition. I bf-ed them to sleep and for naps.

It may not have been for you, but it is for many. Just because things worked well for you in that way doesn't invalidate the experiences of others for whom establishing feeding, expressing amd returning to work was more complicated. I think this highlights a big problem. We are all different with different bodies, babies and experiences and we just can't say that a problem doesn't exist just because it didn't for us.

@blueshoes it’s not exclusive breastfeeding - that means they only have breastmilk. From 6 months at least they will be eating food surely? Not sure how or why bf could impact on your job once the baby is past 1 but maybe I’m missing something? I’ve carried on feeding both of mine past this age while working insane full time hours.

Sorry - meant to tag @Wisenotboring, not blue shoes

@babyjellyfish

If you reduce breastfeeding to an economic activity (which is precisely what the "breastfeeding is free" brigade tries to do when they say that), then breastfeeding is massively costly for any significantly economically active woman. I could make more than ten times over the same money by working, in the time it would take me to breastfeed (especially considering how tiring breastfeeding 24/7 really is, and the resulting productivity drop in other activities).

But the "breastfeeding is free" economic argument is pure bollocks. It only applies to the chronically unemployed, and it's massively insulting to assume that's what all mothers are.

Breastfeeding is only really time consuming in the very early days, when almost all mothers are on maternity leave anyway. I went back to work when my baby was 7 months old and for the first couple of months I was expressing twice a day to provide milk for the childminder. He is now 9 months old and we have just reduced to one milk feed during the day and I breastfeed him in the morning and before bed.

You are right that it is very labour intensive in the early days though. I feel sorry for women in America, where there is a lot of pressure to breastfeed but they don't get proper maternity leave. I'm in a bumpers group on Facebook and a lot of the American mums went back to work when their babies were a couple of months old and just seemed to be pumping round the clock as well as trying to work full-time (not to mention the lack of sleep). I genuinely don't know how they do it.

It's great that breastfeeding became so much less time consuming for you as time went by. As many of us are trying to say, one experience doesn't invalidate others. I clearly remember how time consuming it was trying to feed my 1 year old as I was also trying to homeschool older ones during the lockdown. The bedtime feed was also extremely long-winded. Breastfeding is so much more than food and not all babies have got the memo that they can have a quick, efficient feed and everyone gets on with their day. I do completely agree that it cannot and should not be simplified to simply an economic series of arguments. However, that strand of breastfeeding is very interesting and important for women and their babies.

[quote JanuaryPinks]**@blueshoes* it’s not exclusive* breastfeeding - that means they only have breastmilk. From 6 months at least they will be eating food surely? Not sure how or why bf could impact on your job once the baby is past 1 but maybe I’m missing something? I’ve carried on feeding both of mine past this age while working insane full time hours.[/quote]
I realise food is introduced past 6 months. The point i am.making is that breastfeeding doesn't always run like the books say and babies often want to go to the breast far more frequently than pure nutrition would require. This makes returning to work difficult for many.

@EmiliaAirheart

I’ve also heard: breastfeeding is only free if a woman’s time is worth nothing.

This with bells on. I have always felt that the benefits of bottle feeding are massively undersold. Breast feeding is undoubtedly the most natural way to feed a baby but that doesn't always make it the best way. It's just another stick to beat us with and another way of allowing men to take a minimal role in child rearing.

It's great that breastfeeding became so much less time consuming for you as time went by. As many of us are trying to say, one experience doesn't invalidate others. I clearly remember how time consuming it was trying to feed my 1 year old as I was also trying to homeschool older ones during the lockdown. The bedtime feed was also extremely long-winded.

Absolutely, and it's clear from this thread that everyone's experience is different. I found breastfeeding very painful in the early days and I remember thinking around 6 weeks in that if it didn't stop hurting soon I would have to give up. Thankfully it did stop hurting and after that it was easy.

I'm interested in your comment about breastfeeding being very time consuming when your baby was a year old. Do you think formula feeding would have been quicker? I will be swapping at least the daytime feed for cow's milk once my baby turns one. As for the others, I don't know. I would like to continue but I also want to TTC again and haven't had my first postpartum period yet.

I genuinely feel it’s as broad as it’s long.

Breast feeding for me was far more convenient and cheaper. My eldest latched easily and it was only because I decided I preferred to have them on a bottle that I didn’t exclusively breast feed. The only expense I then accrued was getting a pump (which my sister gave me) and reusable bottle bags. Apart from nipple pads and cream they were the only expenses. She took to a bottle easily.

Whereas my milk never came in with my youngest and formula feeding with my was a nightmare. We tried him and on so many types of formula that he would just bring back up, he went through four types of bottle teets before we found one we actually like, we then sterilised bottles and ended up buying a steriliser because doing it by hand was laborious. We then found out he had a dairy allergy so therefore had to get specialist milk. It was far more expensive bottle feeding him than breast feeding had been. We easily sank £100+ that we may as well have thrown in the bin.

Had my milk come in none of that would have happened. However I know women who bottle feed completely carefree and I know women who need endless creams, medications, breast feeding consultants etc because they find feeding hard.

There is a really divisive culture between breast and bottle with mums and there always feels to be an underlying inference ‘breast is best’ ‘breast feeding is harder’ ‘bottle feeding is a cop out’ ‘bottle feeding mums are lazy’.

Everyone’s situation is completely different and I don’t think it’s fair to say one is cheap and one is more expensive. I think feeding a baby is compatible whichever you do.

But most people that EBF don't require 'lactation consultants' and all the rest?

It sounds like you had a hard time establishing and maintaining breastfeeding, but you still can't extrapolate from your individual experience to assume it's the same for the majority of women.

Breastfeeding was easy for me - and free because I was lucky enough to be at home for a year and not need to express. That doesn't mean I assume it is the same easy process for everyone or that I don't understand it's bloody difficult for some.

What's needed is good, free, extensive help for all women who want to try to breastfeed, and less judgement about the best choices women make for their own circumstances.

If I'd believed all the doom and gloom on here about how it's a nightmare for pretty much everyone I'd probably not have bothered persevering when DS wouldn't latch properly - luckily for me my mum could help me.

Yeah it was easy for you ... Until you specifically stated you did have issues and you were able to continue because your mum helped you. So it wasn't entirely easy and trouble free, was it? What would you have done if you hadnt had your mum?

This is an absurd thread! Of course it's free! Why is it that countries with the highest percentage of breast fed babies are the poorest in the world?

Most people I know that bf buy nursing bras, nursing tops, possibly a shawl, nipple cream, breast pads, a breast pump, bottles, a steriliser… which all together is a few hundred quid at least.

Obviously not in your situation @Wisenotboring but when I’m around my baby feeds all the time. When I’m not there, she’s fine. So I go out to work all day, she has a great time in childcare, and at weekends she has her milk bar on tap again. Just because they like it doesn’t mean they need it, and it certainly hasn’t stopped me returning to work.

I’m lucky enough to live in an area where breastfeeding support is provided by a fantastic local charity but even with that bfing is far from free. Haakaa pump, medela shells, nipple cream, nipple compresses, breast pads, nursing bras, plus the physical pain of mastitis, blocked ducts and cracked and bleeding nipples, and unless you’re going to pump/express so baby can have bottles (more money) you’re basically tied to the baby. The milk is free but otherwise the cost- physically and financially- can get quite high!

“Its just statistically more likely the richer and more educated you are the more likely you are to BF successfully for longer periods. Probably because you have the money to get help with these early issues!”

That is just factually incorrect. The countries with the highest breastfeeding rates don’t have lactation consultants or even electricity never mind electric pumps or refrigerators for milk storage! Rwanda has a 90% breastfeeding rate, Malawi is 72%.

Our lifestyle in the West makes breastfeeding difficult. Rwandan women aren’t thinking about how to breastfeed in the car after the 9am baby sensory class or pumping enough milk so the MIL can look after the baby while Mum goes back to work. They also get breastfeeding support from their immediate community around them, not lactation consultants. Now I wouldn’t want to switch places with a Rwandan mother. If they don’t breastfeed their babies they die, because they can’t afford and don’t have easy access to formula so they have to find a way to make it work. Putting that aside though, there’s clearly a reason why poorer countries have high breastfeeding rates and it isn’t because they’re middle class.

@Volhhg

This is an absurd thread! Of course it's free! Why is it that countries with the highest percentage of breast fed babies are the poorest in the world?

THIS!