To think U.K. houses and flats are not fit for purpose?

[Notcontent]

So - I know that there is a housing shortage - but I think too much forces is on getting houses and flats built no matter how small/inadequate, which can cause huge problems for the people living there.

The U.K. has some of the smallest houses in Europe. I am not saying people need huge houses - far from it actually. But homes should have:

• adequate heat and sound insulation
• rooms that are big enough for storage, etc
• somewhere for people to dry their clothes
• etc

I am not an architect but I am interested in this as I have lived in a few different countries, in different houses and flats, and have experienced first hand how small things in house design can make a huge difference to people’s quality of life.

@Elaine2468

The blanket hate for new builds makes me a bit sad. We have a new build, 4 bed, 3 bathroom property. All bedrooms are decent sized doubles. It's split over three floors which helps to make it more spacious. Our old house was a 70s 3 bed and it had plenty of storage space but that was really all it had going for it. The layout made it feel cramped. Our new house has a coat/storage cupboard in a big entrance hallway, a large cupboard in the kitchen. Built in appliances with lots of cupboard space left. Wide landings to allow for cabinets to be added. We have front and back gardens, a driveway, a garage... But it took us bloody ages to find it. We searched through plenty of houses that wouldn't have been big enough. Some of them built in the 60's, 70's, 80's.some new.... They had size issues in the bedrooms mainly, as pp have mwntioned. But surely those houses that wouldn't have been right for us would have been great for someone else? A starter home for one person/a couple? An empty nester?

We also own a new build which has 4 good size bedrooms, high ceilings, walk in storage in hallway and on both landings (townhouse). No utility sadly as we couldn't afford that one (had an extra bedroom too). The point is it's possible to get a decent new build bjt it's not the norm, and a lot of people (on a budget, requiring shared ownership, etc) simply don't have the choice/buying power to be picky

Agree

Some of the comments on This thread are hilarious

• we don't build basements because they are expensive with invariably long term maintenance issues and the ground conditions aren't suitable

• not every developer makes loads of profit - many new build sites are built with very very low profit margins some years

• land is expensive - nothing to do with the house builder who is the one who is demonised and everything to do with land owners capitalising on fact land is a finite resource

• new builds are built to much tighter building regs than ever before in term of materials and heat insulation and sound insulation

• housing association properties do have minimum space requirements for bedrooms and storage but private does not and that's does need addressing

• houses in Europe are valued on size ie m2. But In the U.K. the convention has always been value based on number of bedrooms - hence why builders try and get as many bedrooms in as possible

• a desire for en-suites means less storage and smaller bedrooms as builders try and get it all in on one footprint

• why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden 🤷🏻‍♀️

@LakieLady sure houses were so much bigger under a Labour government

@Fimofriend

Went to see a new built show home. Were very impressed with design, size, garden. Then I wanted an extra look in the kitchen while my husband wanted an extra look upstairs. The lamp in the ceiling in the kitchen moved around so much I thought it would fall down. The ceiling moved several centimetres just by him walking around. I have never seen anything like it.

Show homes are often made to seem bigger than they are because they remove the internal doors, and put a two seater sofa in the living room for example

@bonetiredwithtwins

Some of the comments on This thread are hilarious

• we don't build basements because they are expensive with invariably long term maintenance issues and the ground conditions aren't suitable

• not every developer makes loads of profit - many new build sites are built with very very low profit margins some years

• land is expensive - nothing to do with the house builder who is the one who is demonised and everything to do with land owners capitalising on fact land is a finite resource

• new builds are built to much tighter building regs than ever before in term of materials and heat insulation and sound insulation

• housing association properties do have minimum space requirements for bedrooms and storage but private does not and that's does need addressing

• houses in Europe are valued on size ie m2. But In the U.K. the convention has always been value based on number of bedrooms - hence why builders try and get as many bedrooms in as possible

• a desire for en-suites means less storage and smaller bedrooms as builders try and get it all in on one footprint

• why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden 🤷🏻‍♀️

- why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden 🤷🏻‍♀️

Because where I live in the North West it it not out of the ordinary for it to rain every single day for three or four months in a row.

- why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden 🤷🏻‍♀️

Because I live in Enland where it pisses down with rain for 10 months of the year 🤦‍♀️

One thing I have noticed looking a new builds is how many toilets and bathrooms they have. A tiny two bed had a toilet downstairs in what could have then made a more sensible sized living room and a bathroom and toilet upstairs. Slightly larger houses have a toilet downstairs, an ensuite and a family bathroom. All the living space in these houses was tiny so it seems odd having so many bathrooms/toilets.

My own house is a three bed old council property with one bathroom and separate toilet but it has cupboard space instead.

It isn't just an issue in New builds.
Our 1940s 3 bedroom council house is 740 square feet. Quite a squeeze with 6 of us!
Although we do have a lovely garden, so I wouldn't trade it for a new build. But quite often they look bigger than our older council house.

Our 3 bed 1930s semi has two really good sized high ceilinged reception rooms and we built a good sized garden room on the back which we felt was preferable to a conservatory. Two cupboards under the stairs. Small utility for the dishwasher, washing machine and broom cupboard. Downstairs loo. Long kitchen not big enough for an island but plenty big enough for units both sides. Huge cupboard on the landing, airing cupboard in the bathroom. Detached garage which we’ve converted. I know someone with a 4bed 1970s house that feels poky in comparison.

- why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden 🤷🏻‍♀️

Ah yes. I love taking my freshly washed clothes out into the rain. Lovely and moist.

Sometimes if we’re exceptionally lucky, they freeze. The children adore a wet school uniform on a Monday morning after a weekend of lashing down gales.

I live in a top-floor flat and I don't have or want a tumble dryer. There is a drying green out back but I've lost my key to the back door, and they're rarely used for drying clothes anymore. I have a pulley in my kitchen which has a very high ceiling. My clothes dry very quickly. What about drying my clothes indoors is problematic? Some people on here seem to think the everyone lives an English suburban life, house on an estate, postage-stamp garden.

Agree op, the sound on New builds, small windows, cramped garden space, horrid.

why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden

I do but it doesn't work this time of year!

The vast majority of new build plots have zero side return and minimal gardens so you can't add value and you can't extend

There is an argument that that is a good thing. If you change a 2 bed house into a 4 bed house, for example, you take away an affordable house off the market. If you want 4 beds there's an argument you should move house to a 4 bed house and leave the 2 bedder for someone else.

As for new builds in my area (east midlands) there are some very attractive houses which have been recently completed and would be great if I had the best part of half a million pounds to spare.

The only real advantage to my little house is that I have an additional loo downstairs which is handy so that I don't have to lug my ageing carcass up another flight.

A relative of mine is a contractor and said most people prefer a 5 bed townhouse with 1 reception, with one decent size master with ensuite and the remaining 4 box rooms to a 3 bed semi! It's all about supply and demand.
The social housing in my area now is mostly new build 'apartments', with tiny rooms. I visited a client in a 4 bed apartment (7dc) and the living room was so small and thin it could only fit a 3 seater sofa along one wall. There's no way the family could have sat there at the same time.

- why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden

I live in NZ and although I use the garden most of the time, there are occasions in winter where it just isn't possible. I imagine it is even harder in parts of the UK?!

People talking about gardens is interesting as the UK is known in Europe for having lots of houses with quite big front and back gardens.

Here in Belgium, there is a similar obsession with owning (and building!) your own house, but the things you see in rental accommodation are shocking eg very unsafe twisty or narrow stairs, showers in the kitchen or even the bedroom, a toilet outside on the balcony, lots and lots of bedrooms that are not on a proper floor, just a raised platform or a type of fake mezzanine level. Small bedsits and studios can be smaller than the minimum for London. Lots of converted flats with really strange layout like one room being across a hall that other neighbours go through, lots and lots of attic studios with no window except a skylight.
Old toilets without a wash basin, old heating systems, etc. etc.

@SquirrelG

- why would you want to dry clothes inside? Use the garden

I live in NZ and although I use the garden most of the time, there are occasions in winter where it just isn't possible. I imagine it is even harder in parts of the UK?!

And if you live in a flat you may not have a garden. I then hear people say it's your own fault if your place is damp from drying inside when there is no other option!

And if you live in a flat you may not have a garden. I then hear people say it's your own fault if your place is damp from drying inside when there is no other option!

Yes, I actually meant to add that to my post. I see a lot of posters on MN who have no garden - what are they supposed to do?

I've pointed out on WFH threads, how WFH is only good for people privileged enough to have a home suitable to work from.

This is a very good point. We have a new build 2 bed and DH works from home but there's literally nowhere he can work so he has no choice but to use one corner of DS's bedroom. The lounge has to have everything crammed into it..the dining table, sofa, TV, etc. Valuable space is took up by a downstairs wc. Just up the road there are 1930s ex council semis which are huge compared to this.
I hate the fact we have no adequate ventilation in the bathroom too. There are only windows in the bedrooms. The bathroom fan is a ridiculous attempt at ventilation. It barely functions.

On the plus side, both bedrooms are a decent size and there is air sourced electric heating which costs just £62 p/m. (Not taking into account price rises coming up). So it feels lovely and cosy in winter but stifling hot in a heat wave.

@SquirrelG

And if you live in a flat you may not have a garden. I then hear people say it's your own fault if your place is damp from drying inside when there is no other option!

Yes, I actually meant to add that to my post. I see a lot of posters on MN who have no garden - what are they supposed to do?

Yep. I live in a ground floor apartment with my own garden. Not allowed to dry washing out there, so that's that!

Agreed.

All driven by greed and profit without a thought for the actual comfort and welfare of the people who will live in this.

But I think it also goes beyond that: as the cladding scandal has shown developers have been building homes for the past 30 years using shoddy and dangerous material and cutting corners.

Also the leasehold system is a type of financial slavery.

The housing market in the UK is a disgrace.