To think U.K. houses and flats are not fit for purpose?

[Notcontent]

So - I know that there is a housing shortage - but I think too much forces is on getting houses and flats built no matter how small/inadequate, which can cause huge problems for the people living there.

The U.K. has some of the smallest houses in Europe. I am not saying people need huge houses - far from it actually. But homes should have:

• adequate heat and sound insulation
• rooms that are big enough for storage, etc
• somewhere for people to dry their clothes
• etc

I am not an architect but I am interested in this as I have lived in a few different countries, in different houses and flats, and have experienced first hand how small things in house design can make a huge difference to people’s quality of life.

I don’t think the way that houses are built in this country is at all adequate in terms of insulation and heating. They need far too much, expensive heating.

@SE123

basements are great but expensive to build and very expensive to guarantee

And not practical in areas prone to flooding.

I don't think it's unique to the UK. While it's so depressing to see acres of identikit red brick houses with boxy rooms and tiny garden, I've seen similar elsewhere. And looking at those 'Flip or Flop' type programs from the US and it looks like a stiff breeze would knock those over - though they are more spacious and to call a room a bedroom it must have a closet.
I did live on an ex council estate built in the 30s. All had long gardens and were built around greens for communal play (though now all have 'no ball games' signs). The houses were very solid but tiny - two doubles and a box room with bathroom downstairs, galley kitchen and one reception totalling less than 900sq ft. My council neighbour said she had raised four boys and a girl in hers! So small council housing is nothing new, but the new home builders for private ownership seem to be shrinking the house footprints daily.
There are minimum space rules now but they are not fit for purpose. Getting architects involved and proper independent town planners may help, but of course it all comes down to the money.

Our first home as a couple was a German apartment. 3beds. We had a good size bathroom, plus additional toilet room. Storage cupboard. Full kitchen which some people put a little table in. Living/dining room. Main bedroom had fitted wardrobes with shelves, then we had space for two sets of drawers, dressing table, plus a full size cot bed 10 months later. The second bedroom, which we used as a dining room, also had a massive built in wardrobe. The smallest bedroom easily fit a double bed. Nice wide hallway throughout.

There were 8 apartments on four floors in each half of the block. Then in the cellar we had the laundry (with stations fir 8 washing rooms, they were our own), and drying room. We had our own cellar room too. There was a room for bike and pram storage in the cellar too, although folded prams could be kept in the foyer. Outside we we had a massive communal garden for the 16 apartments, where you could put stuff like trampolines and paddling pools if you had indemnity insurance, plus a play park. We also had a private balcony.

It was a lovely home. Well built and thought out.

Incidentally we had the 'pleasure' of a New build house in a different part of Germany few years later and it wasn't as good. Well built, and the attic space was good. But the house itself was lacking in light, space and was very claustrophobic. Tried to incorporate things like the laundry room, ensuite etc without having the floor space so the actual living space was limited. So small new builds is not just a UK phenomenon.

Completely agree on how impractical UK houses are, generally speaking. Have never understood why people don't demand to know sq metres of a house, that's the main thing that matters really. It's not even listed on floor plans all the time.

When it comes to heating etc, at the time of COP26 I listened to an interview with an architect/surveyor/something person who is also lobbying for better insulated homes in Britain and she said 'British people don't know what it is like to live in a warm home'. That really struck a chord with me, I'm not originally from Britain and I've never seen damp houses like I do here. It's not an issue in many other colder countries, bathrooms and houses are not damp because there's good insulation.

So someone wrote 'Windows are small but that means less likely to get rot / mould / damp and waste heat.' Windows can be massive if houses are well insulated!

There was quite an interesting thread last year about what standard houses in other countries look like, there were lots of links to estate agents that are probably outdated but maybe interesting for someone else too anyway: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4153522-Houses-in-other-countries-inspired-by-what-baffles-you-about-other-countries

It’s a very small country with a huge population so small homes aren’t really a choice, more a necessity.

And the new build obsession with toilets. A tiny three bed new build with three toilets in it, and no where to actually store anything or put a decent wardrobe

I think our tiny housing and density is why there is so much anger and general unhappiness in the population, we are all living on top of one another

I work in this area.

It comes down to land value.
Plenty of developers would prefer to build large, high quality and sustainable homes.

However, this does not create the most profit. The developers who can create the most profit can afford to pay the most for the land, and so are the ones who can buy and build their crap tiny boxes.

We have a shortage so they sell anyway.

The same goes for everything else you would like to see - large gardens, more light, more affordable housing and amenities. All adds to cost which reduces the amount you can pay for land which means you can't buy or build anything at all.

Take less profit then? It's a very risky business and construction costs are getting higher. A decent level of profitability needs to balance out the risk. Your investor and the bank providing the debt also need to see this profitability otherwise they won't lend/invest you any money.

What's the solution?

The government should put stricter planning requirements on size, level of affordable housing, quality. Crucially authorites should stick to these and not agree to flex them just because too much has been paid to secure the land. Result, land prices come down and better housing is built.

Obviously its not really as straightforward as that.

Local authority planning departments are hugely underfunded and can't deal with the existing workload let alone put together proper strategies for where and what should be built. And if they don't have these it's a free for all.

Also doesn't work in lower value areas where cost of land is low and grant funding required just to make it possible to build.

So, that's why we don't have enough space to dry our clothes.

I've only experienced living in houses in France, the UK and NZ, and yes the UK houses are smaller, but our house in NZ was literally an uninsulated shed with no heating or double glazing. We managed one winter in it before we had to have the whole place insulated and a fire and heat pump installed. Couldn't do much about the windows, so we lived with condensation pouring down the windows for 2 months of the year, a dehumidifier constantly running and our youngest had ear infections and coughs every single winter for the 5 years we lived there. Moved back to the UK into a new build rental and the rooms were smaller, but man did I appreciate the central heating and double glazing in that tiny house!!

We lived in 2 houses in NZ, and visited friends houses and this was perfectly normal. Never have I ever been so cold inside as I was in NZ buildings in winter, so I'm not sure build quality is just a UK issue!

I don't think houses here are fit for purpose but I don't think this problem is unique to the UK.

What I really don't understand is why people really want to buy draughty old houses built many decades ago because they have 'character' and then moan about how expensive they are to maintain and heat.

People might be snobby about my new(ish) build, but it's lovely and warm!

@ParsleySageRosemary

And light. Council house design concerned itself with creating fit places to live for all, to maximise health and well-being. Modern design seems to ignore all of that, preferring the ethos of money-making instead. The plots also included gardens to be used for veg growing, and estates were originally designed to be pleasant.

The modern practice of putting great big 5 or 6 bedroom houses on tiny gardens befuddles me completely.

I have a great big house in a tiny garden. It's probably equivalent to the ground floor of the house. It suits me fine. There is enough room for bbq/table/chairs/gazebo so we can have a party. Theres a bird feeder to keep things interesting. There's space to put out an airer in the summer. There is a minute lawn and a couple of flower beds. Sa few planters and a solar powered water feature. That's all I want. I HATE gardening.

@Dishwashersaurous

And the new build obsession with toilets. A tiny three bed new build with three toilets in it, and no where to actually store anything or put a decent wardrobe

Yes! I've been looking at new builds and some of the bedrooms are very cramped because they've insisted on adding an en suite. The kitchens are also small with very little worktop space. Not sure if that's just a "me problem" because DH and I usually cook together. I assume a lot of people do.

Went to see a new built show home. Were very impressed with design, size, garden. Then I wanted an extra look in the kitchen while my husband wanted an extra look upstairs. The lamp in the ceiling in the kitchen moved around so much I thought it would fall down. The ceiling moved several centimetres just by him walking around. I have never seen anything like it.

@Dishwashersaurous

And the new build obsession with toilets. A tiny three bed new build with three toilets in it, and no where to actually store anything or put a decent wardrobe

Yes, I found this utterly bizarre when we looked at a couple of new builds prior to the house we bought. Tiny two bedroom houses with a main bathroom, an en-suite, and a WC downstairs. But no space to fit proper wardrobes in bedrooms because they’d used that for the en suite and no built in understairs cupboards because that was filled with a toilet. Why on Earth would I need three places to poop but nowhere to hang my clothes or put the vacuum cleaner??

Yes. I would never contemplate a new build as they tend to be dreadful quality, tiny, no adequate parking (surely every house 2 beds and up should have 2 off road parking spaces as a minimum standard?) and almost all of them have windows looking directly into someone else's house. Don't even get me started on the scam that is shared ownership.

@BiscuitLover3678

I completely agree. They build so many tiny spaced one bedroom flats, all to much smaller proportions. Family homes do not have enough storage space and no place for a proper dinner table. It’s awful.

Only on the first page but YANBU OP. Regarding the dinner table issue, I was watching a piece on TV about the 'death of the dining table' and how it is terrible that families don't use one anymore, instead preferring to eat on the sofa and completely missing the fact that a lot of homes just don't have the space for one.

I think you have a point op. I have lived in many addresses over the years and rarely is there sufficient storage.

I am constantly throwing crap away and despite fitted wardrobes in both bedrooms am always facing an uphill struggle. I throw and recycle huge amounts yet still feel no further forward.

Going off on a slightly different tangent I am half Belgian. Their houses have fantastic thick wooden doors. Really high quality. They make most houses look like Micky Mouse over here!

Apartments are often too small and I agree about the lack of outdoor space especially. Interesting to read that some places require flats to have access to outdoor space. However, people also have way, way too much stuff/possessions. A small flat done well is liveable and you can be happy there, a small flat crammed with stuff just makes you feel unwell.

I love a nice cellar too but over here this is fairly rare. In Belgium many people have an attic and cellar in full everyday use (the cellar being an excellent storage option). Plus a place for the wine for those who indulge regularly!

@RincewindsHat

Yes. I would never contemplate a new build as they tend to be dreadful quality, tiny, no adequate parking (surely every house 2 beds and up should have 2 off road parking spaces as a minimum standard?) and almost all of them have windows looking directly into someone else's house. Don't even get me started on the scam that is shared ownership.

Surely this partially explains why new builds are so small inside? Land is limited and expensive. So if everyone wants to live in a house rather than a flat and have off road parking for multiple cars on their property and to ideally have a detached house and for the outlook to be away from any other property; the actual size and inside of the house has to be seriously compromised to accommodate all that?

People want the new builds with tiny gardens though.
Took us months to sell out four bed semi with large rooms. Large kitchen diner. Larger living room. Medium size dining room and large utility. Upstairs had two bathrooms, downstairs wc.
Everyone said how lovely it was to have large rooms and new builds don’t but they wouldn’t touch it due to the very large garden.

It’s so strange

I live in a small 4 bed semi. My parents live in a large 4 bed detached. We have no storage, they have one cupboard in a bedroom. My son has just bought a 3 bed end terrace ex council house it has 5 (yep, FIVE) cupboards off the hallway. All built with a few years of each other. Go figure!!

Sure, it could partially explain it. It even sounds like it makes sense UNTIL you look at the extremely healthy profit margins and revenues of companies like Barratt Homes and realise there's actually no good excuse for churning out estates and homes with poor design and not making adequate parking provisions. Land cost is in no way an issue.

New builds are far too small. I live in an old ex-coal board house, as there is no way I could ever afford a new build, and the rooms are quite spacious. I have viewed new out of curiosity and the rooms and garden are tiny. However, we simply just don't have enough land available in the UK. We are a tiny island so desperately over populated. Land is precious and very expensive. Other countries have bigger houses because they have the land.