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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be concerned about the rise of antisemitism in the UK?

285 replies

hibbledibble · 27/01/2022 16:17

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447069/Terrifying-moment-Jewish-shop-owners-suffer-random-anti-Semitic-attack-London-street.html

Sorry that this is a daily mail article, but such events are common, but rarely reported on.

Antisemitism has increased at a worrying rate recently, and there seems to be little concern about this.

An example of antisemitism being tolerated, is that when footage of the above crime was posted to a local group on social media, some were saying that these men may have deserved the assault, and unpleasant comments made about Jews.

OP posts:
Sashimimimi · 27/01/2022 22:22

Err who has actually been at the top of UK politics over the last 12 years? and what is our PMs views on Muslims etc.

Racism of all kinds has never really gone away, anti-Semitism is alive an kicking, as is Islamophobia.

This thread is about antisemitism.
Not “racism of all kinds”.

sansucre · 27/01/2022 22:24

@Mandatorymongoose

I remember being told as a kid that I killed Jesus as though I had personally gone and crucified the man (bit before my time honestly).

I've read today people sticking up for Wiley because "Jew's aren't a race". It does feel that for a variety of reasons people feel that antisemitism is more acceptable than other forms of racism.

For all those who lost their lives and loved ones, we remember.

Jews are both a race and a religion. The inability to understand only adds to the ignorance of others'

Anti-semitism means hatred of Jews. As a terms, antisemitism rather lessens and whitewashes what it actually means. This is why antisemitism is deems more acceptable than racism. Additionally, because so many Jews are white, some feel that they cannot experience racism, even though Jews are a race (and not just a religion).

Echobelly · 27/01/2022 22:28

@Mynameisnew - yes, there are far fewer of us than most people think! I find it interesting to ask people how many Jews they think there are in the UK most people assumed 'a couple of million maybe?' but no, there's only about 300k of us. We do punch above our weight culturally and are very concentrated in London (about 200k out of the total). And this is a problem as a lot of people don't know any Jews, which is probably at the heart of a lot of antisemitism. I can imagine people thinking 'Well, these Jews obviously keep themselves to themselves, they must think they're better than us' without realising it's just there aren't many of us about.

I've never experienced antisemitism on the street, but then I don't 'look' Jewish, I have an Anglicised name. I do sometimes worry someone might yell something at us one day when they see us obviously walking to synagogue (when my husband would usually have his kippah on his head) but it's never happened.

I have experienced it a bit online - for example, people who feel I owe them my view on Israel before they'll engage with me, for example. As it happens I abhor the treatment of the Palestinian people and feel they should have a state - but the point is I don't owe anyone that just because I'm Jewish.

I have the privilege of not having to be too worried about antisemitism myself, and I don't see any existential threat for Jews. But certainly more could be done to educate people to understand that... Jews are people! We don't all think or look the same way.

It would be good to teach that the origins of a prevelance of Jews in finance, for example, os not a sinister conspiracy but originates in the fact that Jews were historically not allowed to have many jobs except moneylending - and were then villified for being greedy and obsessed with money.

ScribblingPixie · 27/01/2022 22:36

We do punch above our weight culturally

That is so true. I remember as a child thinking Jewish people were so talented, intelligent, successful and entertaining that it was a total mystery why there was prejudice against them. But I guess I've solved the mystery right there.

sansucre · 27/01/2022 22:38

@Echobelly Your comment but then I don't 'look' Jewish, I have an Anglicised name made me both laugh and roll my eyes.

You see this is part of the problem when even us Jews are rolling out the lazy stereotypes about what Jews look like/are called!! (I too have found myself saying exactly this and I rather hate myself when I do, but so many non-Jews have such narrow pre-conceived ideas of what Jews look like, and always but always trot out the same tropes.

I totally agree with the rest of your post.

129orbust · 27/01/2022 22:43

I am not Jewish but am very interested in history and the stories of the holocaust. My daughter was fortunate to volunteer in a care home for the Jewish community so learned, and taught us, a lot about the religion and lovely holidays.
We should be shocked by a community not feeling safe in this country and ensure this thread does not slip away so as many people as possible see it.
Never forget - teach your children and they will teach theirs Flowers

Duke4 · 27/01/2022 22:44

@ScribblingPixie
Exactly. I find myself thinking there could be some bitterness and envy. And this could contribute the the nasty and deluded hierarchy of racism imported from the US. And of course there is deprivation in the Jewish community like every other. There are multiple paradoxes with antisemitism. It’s illogical and stupid.

MmeSosostris · 27/01/2022 22:46

I think it is possible to not see everyday anti Semitism when you are not Jewish. I was in central London with a Jewish friend years ago, at night when we walked past a bouncer who made an anti Semitic gesture. Went over my head but in a Jewish context it is easy to see what it meant. We were just walking along, chatting and minding our own business and this man made the gesture. My friend recognised it for what as t it was.

He is also a football fan and I think there is still some language used at matches that is explicit and incredibly offensive. Once you start to see it, you can’t under it all.

MmeSosostris · 27/01/2022 22:47

*you can’t unsee it

ghostyslovesheets · 27/01/2022 22:47

@Alexandra2001 card carrying member of the Labour party since 1984

this is a thread about antisemitism not racism - or Boris and his lot

EdithStourton · 27/01/2022 22:54

Never come across antisemitism in my life.
I'm not Jewish, and I have. Including from a Highland Scot.

It's pernicious, and widespread.

Twentypast · 27/01/2022 22:56

My last name is a very common English surname. My DH's great grandfather anglicised it when they came from Germany between the world wars. I'm blonde with green eyes so not what people consider stereotypical Jewish looks.
I had a work manager who was very antisemitic in his views and didn't realise I was Jewish. I was very young at the time and although it upset me I didn't know what to do. I certainly couldn't have confronted him. A colleague who was black and had experienced racism went to his line manager and complained. She knew I was Jewish.
When he was questioned by his manager his excuse was that he didn't know I was Jewish. So it was alright for him to have those views but just not express them in front of me. He just couldn't accept his views were wrong.

Duke4 · 27/01/2022 23:01

@Twentypast
How utterly revolting, I’m so sorry.

Nandakanda · 27/01/2022 23:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mandatorymongoose · 27/01/2022 23:16

@sansucre I know Jews are a race as well as a religion. I put my ethnicity as Jewish on forms but usually put my religion as none, as this seems the most sincere way to express my personal heritage (I've not been in a synagogue in the last 20 years so claiming the religion seems a bit much).

But, people are busy arguing online that that isn't the case and I know that it isn't an isolated view. My point, maybe badly made, was it is one of the reasons why it is easier for people to dismiss antisemitism, because it's "not like its racism".

Curiousmouse · 27/01/2022 23:18

I don't see it where I live, but I
believe people that it exists. I'm truly disgusted by it.

MmeSosostris · 27/01/2022 23:26

Also, with the incident on Oxford St with the bus before Christmas the BBC reported that the Jewish students had said something anti Muslim which was shown to be completely fabricated. I think that would have got much more publicity (the misconstuction of the situation and implying that there were offensive comments on both sides) of it were other groups - this is the BBC.

MmeSosostris · 27/01/2022 23:27

*if

Mynameisnew · 27/01/2022 23:29

Of course, there is nothing wrong with Jews and the issue is with the anti semites. To my knowledge I know no-one in Britain who is Jewish - but, I used to think I didn't know any catholics either, and I said as much to the three friends I was having a drink with one night and they all laughed as they were all Catholic. My point is, someone else's religion and culture is really irrelevant to a great extent. Living in France, I worked and holidayed with a Jewish girl. She was utterly lovely and truly anyone who would target such a person... Well it's just ludicrous. She laughed at me actually and said well my surname is kinda Jewish- but I had no idea as I have no stereotype in my head. What would be a Jewish name? Well - perhaps a germanic sounding one - but since I studied German and Dutch I already knew loads of Christians and atheists with names like goldmann or something-baum.

On the financial side- I had thought that in biblical days, Christians weren't allowed to lend money so it fell to Jews. Well, why is that a bad thing? Today society criticises "bankers". Are we going to be harassing their great-grandchildren 80 generations down the line about the credit crunch?

The reasoning just eludes me. By that biblical reasoning, is society as a whole misogynistic towards women because of the fall from grace?

It can't be a Palestine thing because isn't that just 20th century...? I admit I know really very little about Palestine and Israel. I must get reading.

GiveUsACoffee · 27/01/2022 23:31

I'm not Jewish, but I have noticed it's on the rise. A church near me had anti Semitic graffiti sprayed on it this week. Awful. I lit a candle in my window this evening

monkeynutter · 27/01/2022 23:32

This is probably a completely daft question but why is antisemitism on the rise? I really don't understand what anyone can possible have against Jewish people? Or is it just like all other racism where people think other people are inferior (sorry that is a crap way to sum up racism!)

For what it's worth I lit a candle tonight, the holocaust and the atrocities that happened should never be forgotten.

Twentypast · 27/01/2022 23:35

@MmeSosostris

Also, with the incident on Oxford St with the bus before Christmas the BBC reported that the Jewish students had said something anti Muslim which was shown to be completely fabricated. I think that would have got much more publicity (the misconstuction of the situation and implying that there were offensive comments on both sides) of it were other groups - this is the BBC.
Ofcom are now investigating that as the BBC refused back down despite numerous people listening to the tape with no anti Muslim speech heard. www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60083325.amp
SummerWhisper · 27/01/2022 23:52

I'm not Jewish and I am on the left in Labour. Antisemitism sickens me to the core. I am so sorry that people don't feel safe. There needs to be better education about Antisemitism now as well as making sure all school children know the full history and horrors of the holocaust. Antisemitism should carry a severe punishment. It slips under the radar because there is a lack of education about how subtle or nuanced it can be. That's how it seeps into the consciousness. It is covert, it is sometimes barely audible and that's what gives it power. Candle is lit and the flame against injustice should never go out.

MmeSosostris · 28/01/2022 00:03

@Twentypast
They said something in Hebrew that has been translated- like ‘call for help, it’s serious’

How can the BBC refute that? Extraordinary.

Twentypast · 28/01/2022 00:07

[quote MmeSosostris]@Twentypast
They said something in Hebrew that has been translated- like ‘call for help, it’s serious’

How can the BBC refute that? Extraordinary.[/quote]
It's crazy. But that's the BBC. Hmm

The Ofcom investigation might be interesting.

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