To be concerned about the rise of antisemitism in the UK?

[hibbledibble]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447069/Terrifying-moment-Jewish-shop-owners-suffer-random-anti-Semitic-attack-London-street.html

Sorry that this is a daily mail article, but such events are common, but rarely reported on.

Antisemitism has increased at a worrying rate recently, and there seems to be little concern about this.

An example of antisemitism being tolerated, is that when footage of the above crime was posted to a local group on social media, some were saying that these men may have deserved the assault, and unpleasant comments made about Jews.

I never really 'saw' obvious anti-semitism until I moved to Stamford Hill - where this attack took place. I say this attack, but there are plenty around here, from jewish women being punched in their pregnant bellies, to anti-semitic graffiti on bus stops, to verbal abuse being levelled at innocent people just walking on by in the street, soley about their heritage. Just the other day, I was walking down the street, there was a slight bike vs car incident, the bicyclist came off his bike, I stopped to see if he was ok, but he was too busy shouting anti-semitic abuse at the driver. I mean, it was the drivers fault no doubt, but there's no reason to bring his race or religion into it! Needless to say I offered to help no further (I did say something too the cyclist was too busy shouting abuse to hear me) and went on my way. Karma can sort his hurts out, I aint being a good samaritan to him!

I can't say if anti-semitism is on the rise or not, but certainly it's rife round here. I mean, how many other schools need private security because they fear being attacked? I know of no other community that employs security guards to walk around the area during their times of worship, as again, they are in fear of attack. It's atrocious, and my heart goes out to my neighbours. I popped into the shop earlier today, where the attack took place, just to express my sympathies and solidarities, and the shop girl admitted they are a community who live in fear. And no one should live like that.

@whatinthenameofhen

I'm not Jewish but care very much about this. Just wanted to say you are not alone.

Thank you so much

[quote onlychildhamster]@Mynameisnew it can be quite hard to count Jewish people..the people who marry out is around 1/3. Of course a lot of the people who marry out would still consider themselves Jewish but it's quite likely the children may not esp if the Jewish person was the father and the non Jewish partner was Catholic or C of E. My synagogue is liberal and they do recognize the children who are raised as Jewish from such mixed marriages as Jewish but orthodox synagogues are the majority and they don't. Also are they getting the Jewish population from household census or from synagogues. It cost money to belong to a synagogue; many of the most religious people I know (esp the orthodox) don't belong to a synagogue![/quote]
They usually look at the census. However, for understandable reasons, many Jewish people refuse to identify themselves and don’t wish for there to be official records.

I grew up in the 90s when Friends was really pervasive and watched by just about everyone. That show totally normalised Judaism for me as at that time I didn't know any Jewish people. The happy Hanukkah Monica song went a really long way. Didn't teach me much, but did normalise.

@mumsiedarlingrevolta Leopoldstadt was on at the cinema last night. My DD, who is 15 and doing GCSE history, and I went to watch it.

There were parts where I was angry, parts where I was shocked to silence, and at the end, where the list of the family was read out, I cried. There were not many of us in the cinema but as we were coming out a lady said to me "that's my family history".

I'm not Jewish but years ago I was on the receiving end of antisemitism due to wearing a Star of David pendant my Jewish relatives bought me as a gift. The racist slur was done so quickly and quietly and the guy just disappeared into the crowd. I felt horrible for days after that. I often think about how hellish it must be for the Jewish communities who go through this and worse much more often.

I thought it was forbidden to request a person’s religion in France for that reason.

I remember in the fairly early days of Google, an announcement started to appear on certain pages if you googled a person who was Jewish. Apparently so many people were entering the name and term ‘juif’ that they realised the motives were suspect. The announcement was an apology/statement saying they were aware of what was going on and that they knew some searches were genuine but others weren’t.

I worked in a bookshop that used to sell Searchlight (anti racism magazine) and occasionally we were told neo fascists were buying it to find out rally info, if they were mentioned, etc. This is SE London which has always been a hotspot for BNP etc. The most obvious was black racism but it’s not hard to recognise that the arguments they used applied to Jewish people, the Irish, etc. I think the fact that they are white groups meant it was often seen as social violence rather than targeted violence at a group that was seen as ‘other’.

I don’t want to derail the thread from Jewish concerns but I also think the travelling community suffer shocking abuse still. Life expectancy is shocking. Similar in that white community, so ‘hidden’, and discreet but some shocking stories justified by social apathy, really.

One thing that has always stood out for me is that the Jewish community has always recognised the other communities and never made the atrocities singular to them when they could have. There is an excellent book that illustrates the organisation that went into identifying all the Jewish families across Europe to make up the Wannsee (sp) document. The objective was to remove all Judaism from Europe - all history, thought, life, contribution and value. I have never heard or read any official document that has not also included mention of the Roma and Sinti, homosexuals, and Poles who were persecuted.

I watched the Prince Charles portrait documentary last night and was thinking that those survivors have done exactly what Hitler was frightened of. They have upheld humanity, almost beyond human capability. They are a testament to all that is triumphant of the human spirit yet also carried such humility.

“I don’t want to derail the thread from Jewish concerns but I also think the travelling community suffer shocking abuse still. Life expectancy is shocking. Similar in that white community, so ‘hidden’, and discreet but some shocking stories justified by social apathy, really.”

Not wanting to derail the thread either, but I live in an area of the country where there is a higher than average Traveller population and the prejudice and scapegoating is openly expressed, endemic and deeply rooted. Romani have been in the UK since at least the 15th century so the fear and the racism is hundreds of years old, ingrained into the folklore. I lit two candles last night. One in tribute to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust and the other for the Romani victims who are so often forgotten. The Romani Holocaust is generally referred to as the ‘Porajmos’ which roughly translates as ‘the Devouring’.

@MmeSosostris

I thought it was forbidden to request a person’s religion in France for that reason.

I remember in the fairly early days of Google, an announcement started to appear on certain pages if you googled a person who was Jewish. Apparently so many people were entering the name and term ‘juif’ that they realised the motives were suspect. The announcement was an apology/statement saying they were aware of what was going on and that they knew some searches were genuine but others weren’t.

I worked in a bookshop that used to sell Searchlight (anti racism magazine) and occasionally we were told neo fascists were buying it to find out rally info, if they were mentioned, etc. This is SE London which has always been a hotspot for BNP etc. The most obvious was black racism but it’s not hard to recognise that the arguments they used applied to Jewish people, the Irish, etc. I think the fact that they are white groups meant it was often seen as social violence rather than targeted violence at a group that was seen as ‘other’.

I don’t want to derail the thread from Jewish concerns but I also think the travelling community suffer shocking abuse still. Life expectancy is shocking. Similar in that white community, so ‘hidden’, and discreet but some shocking stories justified by social apathy, really.

One thing that has always stood out for me is that the Jewish community has always recognised the other communities and never made the atrocities singular to them when they could have. There is an excellent book that illustrates the organisation that went into identifying all the Jewish families across Europe to make up the Wannsee (sp) document. The objective was to remove all Judaism from Europe - all history, thought, life, contribution and value. I have never heard or read any official document that has not also included mention of the Roma and Sinti, homosexuals, and Poles who were persecuted.

I watched the Prince Charles portrait documentary last night and was thinking that those survivors have done exactly what Hitler was frightened of. They have upheld humanity, almost beyond human capability. They are a testament to all that is triumphant of the human spirit yet also carried such humility.

Yes but this is derailing.

And the Holocaust was unique to the Jews in the extent to which European Jewry was targeted and annihilated. Even the Roma population who came close to the Jewish population in that regard lost about one quarter of the population in Nazi occupied Europe whereas two-thirds of European Jewry was wiped out. The Poles suffered terribly, no doubt, as well as homosexuals, disabled, Serbs, Russians etc and there's no problem acknowledging that - it's not a contest in suffering - but it's not the Holocaust which primarily refers to the genocide of European (and North African) jewry. Nine out of ten Jews in Poland, Greece, Lithuania, Serbia were murdered. Nine out of ten!! Children were literally hunted down to be murdered. Even when the Nazis invaded Hungary in 1944, when they were losing the war, they still found the resources to murder over half a million Jews, 70% of Hungary's Jewish population, over three months. That's how devoted to the Jewsih genocide they were. And most people in European countries DID NOT CARE. Only Denmark actually did something. Even the UK and the US shut their borders tight to Jewish refugees, with Britain even blocking refugees to mandatory Palesitne. The world didn't care.

NO other population was subject to this horror in such a targeted manner. It wasn't "just" the Jews but it was first and foremost aimed at them.

Growing up as one of only two Jewish families left in her town after WWII, and almost no extended family as the Nazis murdered most of them, my mum was very aware of antisemitism. She also says she often befriended Roma children as she could sympathise with the prejudice they faced. My dad's done research on Jews in music around 200 years ago and is not very interested in the links between Jewish and Roma culture, especially musically. He believes that klezmer music is essentially Roma music really - it's all very interesting.

@RunningInTheWind

Stand by for the “I’m not anti Semitic- I just hate Israel” ad nauseum.

I’m Jewish too and agree, it’s the last form of acceptable racism. “Because Israel”.

Is part of the issue on anti semitism that many people will completely focus on only ever criticising Israel while completely absolving Palestinians of any wrong doing and responsibility

Do people think it's OK to be anti semitic, because Jews are most usually white? It has always been wrong to be racist against not white people. Now it is actually unfashionable too.

This loudly spoken outrage and rejection hasn't happened with anti semitism. Or rather, it did, but 70 odd years ago. I can't believe we have to re-educate every generation. But it needs to be done.

@BayesBlues

That is what I meant. Perhaps I didn’t explain it well but I meant that even though the Jewish people were the target, they have never forgotten the other victims of that time.

I also really, really hate the way that Jews feel obliged to denounce the state of Israel as if doing so is the only way their existence can be tolerated. Anyone who expects Muslims to apologise for Islamist terrorism is rightly immediately called out, but the same rules don’t apply

I expect that's what a PP meant about the "pernicious hierarchy of racism" that's becoming so fashionable, and explains the lack of outcry over Rashford

Overall, though, I'm just surprised the thread's attracted so many posts; generally few care enough to contribute on this subject

Not read every comment but I would like to point out that Jews come in every shade from white, black, brown etc. But many POC as well as white people see Jews as only being white. That is what made me particularly angry about the article in yesterday's Guardian. Holocaust Memorial Day commemorates the wiping out of complete families and communities the extermination before the gas chambers came into use because the killing of Jews wasn't happening fast enough.
Meanwhile many thanks to those MNs on here who aren't Jewish but are willing to learn and support us now. Please keep on educating your children. That is how you can help keep the worst of antisemitism at bay.

@MissVictoriaPlum people like your grandma are amazing and admirable.
I have never listened to someone speak (like the lady I did at the museum) where I wanted to listen to her all day. I dont idolise people but I had so much admiration for her.
She donated her doll 'Susie' to the museum. It was the only toy she was allowed to pack on the kindertransport. She was 6 years old.
I dont want to upset you but she told me a story about anti-semitism in her class as a little girl. I held back tears and as a teacher, I couldn't imagine someone being so wicked. It's the subtlety of it that was and is so dangerous.
I hope your grandma is able to live in peace. Its the absolute least she deserves.

I'm late, but would also like to add my support. I lit my candles last night and read and reflected.
It's so important it's never forgotten.

Even the UK and the US shut their borders tight to Jewish refugees, with Britain even blocking refugees to mandatory Palesitne. The world didn't care.

This is so true. We congratulate ourselves on saving the kids who came here through the kindertransport and it IS wonderful that those children’s lives were saved but it also feels very wrong that we couldn’t also make space for their parents.

White Jews are only conditionally white. We're white until certain groups find out we're Jewish. Then we're not the right kind of white. After all, we're usually target no 1 for white supremacists, so we can't be that white.

White Jews are white enough for the far left to try and paint us privileged, and downplay the bigotry towards us (forgetting that the Holocaust is still living history), but not white enough for the far right white supremacists.

I'm horrified by the rise in anti-semitism. It feels like racism in any form has become more acceptable since Brexit. It has always been there but it's coming out of the woodwork now.

@MissVictoriaPlum There's an initiative called the Forever Project to capture the memories of the Holocaust survivors to help teach future generations so we never forget what happened.

www.holocaust.org.uk/foreverproject1

Is the Holocaust taught in schools now? I remember learning about WW2 in the 90s, it is such an important part of history. How can we prevent it happening again, if no one remembers?

There is a rise of antisemitism. It never left, but now it is getting worst.
And it was not the harassment and threats from tory/right-wingers people that drove my friends to leave France and go to Israel. Don't kid yourself.

I don't think it's the reason, it just emboldens some people to make their opinions more visible. They feel like it's more acceptable to say it out loud. I'm sorry about your friends.

@parkstrife

I don't think it's the reason, it just emboldens some people to make their opinions more visible. They feel like it's more acceptable to say it out loud. I'm sorry about your friends.

I agree. It means people who are racist, but don't like to admit that can say: "I'm not racist... but Israel" and have their views not just validated but feel like they're making a moral issue.

@parkstrife

As far as I'm aware (anyone, please correct me) the Holocaust is on the National Curriculum in England and must be taught in the first three years of secondary school, although it is usually taught in Y9. In the devolved administrations I understand that it is not compulsory, but is taught anyway in nearly all schools.

The government also funds the Lessons from Auschwitz project through the Holocaust Educational Trust, which (pre-pandemic, at least) sends two pupils from each school to Auschwitz every year.

What is disappointing though is that Holocaust denial is not criminalised in the UK, unlike nearly everywhere else in Europe. There was an attempt about 20 years ago to legislate against it at an EU level but full implementation was blocked... by the UK.

We were taught about the Holocaust in Y5, in 1998 so I was 9 at the time. We saw pictures of the camps and learned about Anne Frank's diary and read 'When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit' by the wonderful Judith Kerr. The school also arranged for a holocaust survivor to come into school and talk to us about his experiences. He asked us to remember how we met him and to tell people about it as he was handing the baton to us to become witnesses of the witnesses as the time would come in our lifetimes when there weren't any survivors left.

It was profoundly moving and I have never forgotten that experience. I have also had the privilege to meet two other survivors through work events.

I have had the misfortune to meet 3 holocaust deniers/minimisers. Horrifyingly the youngest two are in the same school year as me so 33/34. They are the type who say 'it's not anti-semitic to criticise Israel's policy of X' but then immediately follow that statement with anti semitic comments/statements minimising the holocaust.

Everyone should be taught about the holocaust. The rise of antisemitism worries me deeply.