13 year old boy pushed into a river and drowned. No prosecution. AIBU to think this was not a ‘prank’,

[RopeyRuby]

Just seen this and remember the story.

The culprit knew he couldn’t swim and was old enough to understand the consequences IMO. One of the reasons for not prosecuting was it harming his ‘life chances’! What about poor Christopher who lost his? No trial so no closure for his mother.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60104439.amp

AIBU to think this is not right or just?

Horrific to think of the fear Christopher went through.

I’ll just leave it here

“Kapessa was born in London, with the family moving to Wales in 2011. Joseph reported that the family had been called "the only blacks in the village" in Wales and were subject to racist bullying and harassment, one incident leaving Christopher alone "in a pool of his own blood". Her lawyer reported that her home had been vandalised with graffiti.”

@Divebar2021 South Wales Police right off the bat, but pretty much all official UK institutions...hence the use of the term "institutional racism"

The prevalence of disproportionate punishment/arrests for people whose skin colour identifies them as a target mixed with the complete apathy the same authorities have for the very same people if injustice/a crime is committed against them could fill several books and would need to be constantly updated. There are facts freely available to support this perspective and it's something that all police forces are criticised for, frequently.

Also a fair number of users on this thread. I'd sincerely doubt the support for a bullying thug who ended someone's life would be as substantial if the bullying thug was black/asian/middle eastern heritage.

If you believe the police are racist how can you claim that this case has been treated fairly.

We know there institutional racism in the police, CPS and the courts.

This case didn’t even get the the courts.

You might believe that there was no racism involved in regard to Christopher Kapessa being pushed but that doesn’t mean that there has been no racism involved in the handling of this case. That would impact how evidence is collected and presented to the CPS, how the case was assessed by the CPS and so on

I think the fact that 10yo is the age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is self-explanatory, no?

It doesn't explain why anyone should be held responsible if they couldn't reasonably foresee the consequences, no.

And, as this case shows, the decision to prosecute children is made after taking in to account their age. The "age of criminal responsibility" is a minimum age at which a person could be tried in court. It does not mean that the day a child turns 10 they are held to the same standard and accountability as an adult. Rightly, IMO.

[quote LegoNinjago]It reminded me another death 2 years ago.
Also “prank gone wrong”
Victim also from BAME background; death from anaphylaxis.
Perpetrator also not punished

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/10/karanbir-singh-cheema-death-boy-threw-cheese-did-not-intend-harm-coroner[/quote]
Why on earth should they be in that instance? Since when has throwing food around resulted in a death? Yes the school should have had more robust measures re.out of date medication but also the parents should have ensured this was the case too. Desperately sad case but those children did not mean to harm or kill anyone.

@HopefulProcrastinator

I don’t know if South Wales police did a good job or not so I don’t want to comment on that. The starting point was difficult if the majority of witnesses were children and many of whom have changed their accounts. However it was investigated by the Major Investigation team who would typically investigate murders so presumably not inexperienced. In this case they’ve presented a body of evidence which was evidentially good enough to go to trial but didn’t pass the public interest test (which is beyond the scope of the police) That was a CPS decision. In my dealings with the CPS I have not always agreed with their decision making but I’ve never believed them to be intransigent or stupid. If you can support your argument with evidence they will change their mind. They will certainly know that they would face heavy criticism for this particular decision which is presumably why it was escalated through the CPS ranks and such care was taken to record the rationale. ( as noted in the report above). I don’t have a problem with the prosecution of teenagers at all but it’s not easy if all your prosecution witnesses are children. Presumably many were friends with the suspect which creates an immediate conflict and some had already shown themselves to be inconsistent and would have been easily discredited. Perhaps you’ve never been cross examined by a defence barrister to know what that’s like? There are lots of elements to prosecuting a case at trial… I doubt any of these factors hold much weight in light of the death of a child but they are in fact the reality of what’s faced as part of the criminal justice process.

RedHelen

It wasn’t the case of just “food thrown around”.

If I remember correctly, they deliberately shoved cheese down Karim’s collar as they were aware of his dairy allergy. He was targeted specifically for this reason

They “didn’t expect” that anaphylaxis can be fatal.

As in Christopher’s case, perpetrator didn't expect that the child who’s unable to swim, will not be able to survive in the water apparently
It’s clearly too complicated for 14yo to figure out, according to some posters on here

If I remember correctly, they deliberately shoved cheese down Karim’s collar as they were aware of his dairy allergy. He was targeted specifically for this reason

They “didn’t expect” that anaphylaxis can be fatal.

Well you can't even get the poor child's name right so I'm not sure your recollection is all that reliable. The news article you linked to said that the children didn't know about the allergy. And notes that it would be exceptionally rare for a person to die from skin contact with an allergen. But, yeah, of course two children should have been sent to prosecuted .

The responsibility for Karan's death lies squarely with the school - out of date and insufficient epipens plus staff not properly trained on the use of epipens.

It’s clearly too complicated for 14yo to figure out, according to some posters on here

I can't speak for other people, but what I am pointing out is that we do not know whether the perpetrator in this case knew Christopher couldn't swim. And, for me, that makes a significant difference. Pushing someone in when you know they can't swim is so recklessly dangerous I would have expected the prosecution to go ahead.

@OniferousWasp what a ridiculous thing to state. Not everything is a hate crime.
Do you not realise the amount of people that investigate something like this? The boy that pushed him in also jumped in to try rescue him. Boys that age are risk takers and forever messing about with each other.
Poor Christopher R.I.P.

13 and 14 year olds are thoughtless and impulsive and often stupid - even the intelligent, supposedly mature ones.

I have an intelligent, mature 14 year old that's treated as an almost-adult in many ways...and then every so often he does something that really slams it home that 14 year olds are still children.

Exactly this, I too have a mature, A student, 14 year old who I sometimes look at and wonder has he a brain in his head at all the way he goes on sometimes. I don't know why people are suddenly pretending that 14 year old boys are calm, measured and think everything through. I can completely see a 14yr old shoving someone impulsively who was dithering about jumping in. Dh has just said that he and his mates used to shove each other in the river when they were young, I see the same type of horseplay every summer at our local lake where teenagers hang out.

Teen boys and even young men do stupid things a lot, they are far more likely to die from accidents than women, for this reason, look up young male syndrome.

Teenagers (boys and girls) can be thoughtless and impulsive and do unbelievably stupid things from time to time. There are probably a hell of a lot of people on this thread who are extremely lucky to have got through their teenage and young adult years without ending up as either the perpetrator or victim in similar such incidents that but for luck could have ended extremely differently for them or others

Not everything is premeditated, malicious or racially motivated. Sometimes people do foolish things and don't get away with a scare.

Maybe the race and gender of the perpetrator and victim should be redacted in future as there seems to be a lot of performative wokeness going on in the comments

Not everything is premeditated, malicious or racially motivated.

I'm not sure why some people make this "Not everything is..." statement and think they're saying something profound. Who here has said that "everything" is so and so? People are talking about this particular case (and one or two related incidents). Where does "not everything is..." fit when no one said so?

as there seems to be a lot of performative wokeness going on in the comments

Of course this was coming! It really is the pits to talk about "performative wokeness" where a boy has lost his life. If people were talking about a white girl who lost her life and the case possibly being an issue with sexism or misogyny, would you call it "performative wokeness"? I swear some people just show their racism so blatantly now in the guise of being part of the anti-woke club.

You can have your own opinion and disagree all you want with posters but do you personally know anyone here to know if they're "performing" their "wokeness"?

I swear some people just trot out stupid phrases and buzzwords just to sound edgy!

Maybe the race and gender of the perpetrator and victim should be redacted in future

Yes I quite agree with you here, especially for the anti-woke club to have nothing to complain about either.

@OhWhyNot

If you believe the police are racist how can you claim that this case has been treated fairly.

We know there institutional racism in the police, CPS and the courts.

This case didn’t even get the the courts.

You might believe that there was no racism involved in regard to Christopher Kapessa being pushed but that doesn’t mean that there has been no racism involved in the handling of this case. That would impact how evidence is collected and presented to the CPS, how the case was assessed by the CPS and so on

Bang on

"If you believe the police are racist how can you claim that this case has been treated fairly"

I believe this case has been treated fairly. If the boy who did the pushing was black and cps agreed to prosecute that, imo, would be racist. I believe the cps made the right decision no matter the colour of the pusher because the boy was 14. Not because he was white.

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

Not everything is premeditated, malicious or racially motivated.

I'm not sure why some people make this "Not everything is..." statement and think they're saying something profound. Who here has said that "everything" is so and so? People are talking about this particular case (and one or two related incidents). Where does "not everything is..." fit when no one said so?

as there seems to be a lot of performative wokeness going on in the comments

Of course this was coming! It really is the pits to talk about "performative wokeness" where a boy has lost his life. If people were talking about a white girl who lost her life and the case possibly being an issue with sexism or misogyny, would you call it "performative wokeness"? I swear some people just show their racism so blatantly now in the guise of being part of the anti-woke club.

You can have your own opinion and disagree all you want with posters but do you personally know anyone here to know if they're "performing" their "wokeness"?

I swear some people just trot out stupid phrases and buzzwords just to sound edgy!

Maybe the race and gender of the perpetrator and victim should be redacted in future

Yes I quite agree with you here, especially for the anti-woke club to have nothing to complain about either.

💯

And might I add, the fact that 'woke' is so often used as an insult here, where white women change the meaning and seem to forget that it comes from AAVE. They have the AUDACITY to use a word against black people trying to speak out on the racial injustice that the word was invented to discuss an awakening to, and accuse them of being 'performative' 😂 when really it's used to shut down anyone who dares say anything that they disagree with or makes them feel uncomfortable.

But they froth at the mouth and report Mumsnet if anyone tells them they're being a Karen.

@DickMabutt73962
Exactly! You really couldn't make it up. People fighting to hold onto and use the word 'their way' too but damn you if you get to use a word of your choosing. Colonisation strikes again!

I'm coming from the place of having a 14yr old son and from a place of working with teenagers for the last 8 years. They're brains aren't wired up properly, the scientific evidence backs this. They are over grown toddlers. I totally believe consequences for actions are needed, teenagers, like toddlers need boundaries. But this boy shouldn't go to jail for this on the basis of hyperthetically if he was black he would be. Thats ridiculous and not racism.

Poor boy 😪 I couldn't swim at 13, and used to go to the reservoir with my friends. My mum didn't know that's where I had gone. I'd be devastated if someone pushed my child and it resulted in their death and there were no consequences.

It’s wokeness to question the decisions of institutions that have admitted to institutional racism

Right ok. I guess it’s wokeness to question sexism too when so few rape cases reach court

Poor Christopher, and his family. Heartbreaking. And all the worse if there has been racism in how the case has been handled.

However, more generally, it seems very hard to me that there are people on this thread who want to see children put through the criminal justice system so that they can be punished like an adult.

For what it's worth, Scotland has a different system of justice which aims to support and rehabilitate children and young people rather than punishing them, recognising that good support could help them turn things round before they reach adulthood. Our age of criminal responsibility is also higher (recently raised to 12 years). Yes, children in Scotland can be accused of a serious crime like murder and find themselves in the adult justice system (although there is still legislation specifically about how they should be treated before, during and after conviction)) but that would happen only in extreme circumstances and most young people in trouble would be directed through the Children's Hearing System where the panel members are laypeople not there to decide guilt and punishment but instead to make decisions on what support should be given to the child or young person to try to set them on a better track towards adulthood. It's not perfect but it seems like a much more compassionate system than the one available in England and Wales.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/07/scotland-youth-justice-system-welfare-heart#:~:text=There%20are%20no%20juvenile%20courts,allocate%20the%20most%20serious%20cases.

Poor boy and I really feel for his family

Has there been any evidence given that his colour was of any relevance?

Notallpeoplearenice
There is no evidence the drowning victim was trying to "horseplay" there is no evidence that he threw one of the murderers into the water first.

Are you still talking about this case, or another one?