13 year old boy pushed into a river and drowned. No prosecution. AIBU to think this was not a ‘prank’,

[RopeyRuby]

Just seen this and remember the story.

The culprit knew he couldn’t swim and was old enough to understand the consequences IMO. One of the reasons for not prosecuting was it harming his ‘life chances’! What about poor Christopher who lost his? No trial so no closure for his mother.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60104439.amp

AIBU to think this is not right or just?

Horrific to think of the fear Christopher went through.

At the end of the day the decision not to prosecute was made by the cps, then reviewed by a different prosecutor, then reviewed again by the high Court. All of whom will have actually seen all the evidence unlike those commenting.

Our justice system isn't based on the family "getting their day in court". It's based on if there's enough evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction. Presumably having had access to all the evidence it's obvious to the cps and high court that no way would a jury convict a crying teenager who explains how guilty he feels about what happened, how he tried to rescue Christopher, how his life's been ruined etc (all factors his legal rep would ramp up). Christopher's family were not witnesses so wouldn't be allowed to give direct evidence about the effect this has had on them (although of course their barrister would summarise this). It doesn't matter how fair or unfair it is, that is our legal process. Campaign to change it if you don't think its right.

I can completely understand why Christopher's mother wants a prosecution. But if it was the other way round and Christopher was the pusher I'm not sure she would be so adamant about it.

I see we're victim-blaming now and ready to blame the mum too. "Why did Christopher's parents let him go swimming..." - obviously didn't read the articles on this case but ready to cast blame on anybody but the culprit.

Christopher went to play football, as his mum said. Plans probably changed when his friends decided to go to the river from there. Who knows if the boy who pushed him was his actual friend or just one of the boys in the group or someone he met at the river. There's no evidence to that besides that he knew he wasn't good at swimming. Christopher made that fact obvious, even if he was wearing swimming shorts. Having swimming trunks on isn't a "push me" sign and it's despicable that people keep saying he had his trunks on as if it is. We all know the outrage that victim blaming a woman for wearing a short skirt would cause.

Whether he could swim or not, it's not his fault for drowning anymore than it's a woman's fault for getting killed because she didn't learn self-defence. They're both important life skills. Blame the person who killed him - I'm sure it isn't hard for us to do when a woman/girl is involved.

People learning to swim could be an appropriate conversation to be had here if he went into the water on his own and accidentally drowned because he couldn't swim. He died because he was pushed into the river by someone who knew he was vulnerable.

Even if he knew how to swim, pushing him before he was ready would've still been a dangerous move. People should talk to their children about "boys will be boys" and "teenagers do stupid things". Don't let them raise themselves and think dangerous situations are funny. How about we have that conversation instead.

Who knows? Poor Christopher was so afraid to go in and was dithering so much (according to the articles), he probably wouldn't have gone in at all or he'd have tried to do so at his own pace. The choice was taken away from him when he was pushed.

Heartbreaking stuff. Poor mum!

I think it's unfair to say that this boy (and he is a boy, 13yr olds are still children) should be punished because he would be if he was black. There's huge systematic racism within the police, that's a fact, but surely we should be raising the bar so a black boy who did this would be treated with the same common sense thinking, rather than bringing it down.

My ds is mixed race, I talk to him about what that could mean for him in terms of racism and the police. He will be more likely to be stopped and searched, he will be given harsher treatment if he does something wrong - and so are working class white boys without parents who pay things off to go away. It is unfair, that doesn't mean we should start treating everyone unfairly.

I can completely understand why Christopher's mother wants a prosecution. But if it was the other way round and Christopher was the pusher I'm not sure she would be so adamant about it.

Why would she be "adamant about it" if Christopher was the pusher? That would make him the culprit so what would be the need? She's "adamant about it" because he's the victim. She wants a fair case and justice because he didn't go in willingly, is that a bad thing? Is she being 'too aggressive' going about wanting justice for her son, who's the victim in this case?

@SlidingInto2022sDMs I am blaming the parents. As a parent I am responsible for my 14yr old. If I left him alone at home and something went wrong I would be rightly prosecuted under child neglect.

If my son went to the river without my knowledge I'd be tearing myself to pieces blaming myself, I might then project that outwards because I wouldn't want to feel that responsibility.

The boy was 14, not 13. Let's get the facts right. A black boy would be called a grown man at this point if he was the culprit.

Right! Blame the victim and his parents.

Where's the blame for the culprit and his parents?

Can't make it up.

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

The boy was 14, not 13. Let's get the facts right. A black boy would be called a grown man at this point if he was the culprit.

Yes but as pointed out above, we should be advocating for the black boy to be more fairly treated.

Christopher went to play football,

With his cossie?

Yes and it starts with not minimising the part a White boy played in such situations, unless we're prepared to do so when it's a Black boy.

And we wonder why they grow up and become the sort of White men people complain about?

Bernadette

@OniferousWasp

Do you know what OP? If not heard the story but as soon as I read your OP, I knew the victim would be from some sort of BAME background and the perpetrator, white. People will come along and justify it in all sorts of ways but it is what it is.

His poor mother.

😔

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

Right! Blame the victim and his parents.

Where's the blame for the culprit and his parents?

Can't make it up.

Unfortunately very normal on MN. When I read the thread a while back about a podcast interviewing 'Central Park Karen' on her racism towards Christian Cooper, it was unbelievable the number of posters falling over themselves to defend her and call him an antagonist because she's a (white) woman and clearly afraid of a black man

Water safety needs to be emphasised in schools. Not necessarily learning how to swim, (as many of us know, school swimming is patchy. My elder DD, yr6, has had none in KS2 'due to Covid', the younger DD(yr4) has never had any) but SAFETY. Including the dangers of wild swimming, "horseplay" and jumping of bridges etc. Every year for teenagers.

Prevent these things happening, not fighting over whose fault it was. (The kid who pushed probably has the biggest punishment anyway... living with the consequences)

@OneTC

Christopher went to play football,

With his cossie?

Christopher went to play football, as his mum said.

What is the point of your post? That he lied to his mum and went swimming instead of football? That he went swimming willingly? That he couldn't have gone to play football, then gone swimming afterwards? That some boys don't sometimes wear their trunks as under shorts, which comes in handy in such situations?

What does any of this, if it's the point you're making, have to do with him being pushed? There's always a possibility of people lying but have you or anyone else accepted that possibility for the group and the boy who pushed him? Where's all that challenge and questioning of details for them? Once again, the Black boy has to have done something wrong even when he's the victim.

I've raised my ds up to not think throwing people in water - especially fully clothed is funny.

For this exact reason.

People see it as horseplay. It's bloody dangerous and sometimes fatal.

That's not to say I don't think in a moment of madness he couldn't do such a thing.

The CPs decide to prosecute on the basis of public benefit. In this case that boy will have to love with the consequences of his actions his whole life. In a small close knit community he'll never escape all those around him knowing what he did. What good would a conviction be?

But I agree with the BAME questions. We need to look at other cases and if any convictions have been brought in the same circumstances against BAME perpetrators and white victims. This must be addressed.

But what would be better from all of this is instead of seeking prosecution - a public campaign. Go to schools. Focal on coastal areas, areas with rivers etc. educate teens about the real dangers. Make them question whether than few seconds of fun seeing their friend fall in a river is worth a lifetime of guilt or worth their life?

Prevent these things happening, not fighting over whose fault it was. (The kid who pushed probably has the biggest punishment anyway... living with the consequences)

Oh wow!

[quote LowlyTheWorm]@Soontobe60 it’s correct.

“ The Black Swimming Association (BSA), the first of its kind in the UK, aims to highlight the importance of swimming as an essential life skill after research from the World Health Organisation found the risk of drowning is higher among BAME communities.

Figures from Sport England show that 95% of black adults and 80% of black children do not go swimming at all, according to a survey of taken over two years.

By comparison, 89% of white British adults and 70% of white British children between the ages of five and 16 do not swim regularly.”[/quote]
I used to swim competitively and I can honestly say I never swam against anybody non white. Obviously this was years ago but DDs friend swims at County level and we have often been to watch her swim and it’s the same. I am sure there are some BAME swimmers but it does seem a very white sport.
At DS school in Y5 the whole year went swimming and ALL of DSs Asian friends were terrified of the water and had never been swimming before. I wonder it’s because in general it’s Mums who take small dc swimming and this may be more problematic in some communities?
Anyway, it’s heartbreaking for this family but from reading about it I dint think anyone she prosecuted over it

@ForgedInFire

So tragic. When I read the headline I was ready to say that the pusher should face the full might of the law. But on consideration, I don't think it was malicious or racially motivated. I feel desperately sorry for his family.

Agreed . The initial post made it sound very cut and dry. But when you read it then it is not at all .

Plus it’s all very well to state figures that show statistically he probably could not swim but do you think his mates would know that? All they knew was he wanted to go in but was a bit hesitant.

Our justice system isn't based on the family "getting their day in court". It's based on if there's enough evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction

It may be that every person involved in the case wanted the boys charged but the evidence wasn’t strong enough. In addition it needs to pass the “public interest” test and I would suggest the CPS might hesitate over that aspect. Would the general public support the prosecution of younger teenage boys when a lot of us can recall similar stupidity in our past. I can see how a lack of evidence and no public interest could result in no prosecution in cases like these.

What do people think would be an appropriate punishment of you accept that there wasn't intent?

It is worth reading the actual judicial review outcome rather than just the news reports.

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2022/131.html

The case is clearly an emotional one, but imo the right decision has been made. If the races were reversed and a black child prosecuted it would be the wrong decision.

A terrible tragedy.

I’m not white but hate the term BAME, myself and my old next door neighbour both experienced racism but culturally we were miles apart. It’s unhelpful to lump people all together. Our mixed kids were part of around 15 out of a thousand at the high school who were not white.

30 years ago the ethnic population of the UK was 5% overall, it’s now 14.4%. In some parts of the UK it is still teeny. The biggest city in the county I live in has an ethnic minority population of around 13% but overall county level it’s 3%. So whilst racism sadly still exists at all levels of society and will therefore influence issues such as take up of swimming it’s helpful to understand just how small some ethnic minority communities are in some places.

Teenagers do do stupid things all the time but we tend to treat black boys in particular much more harshly than white boys for similar things and this shows uo in everything from stop and search , exclusions and prosecutions. He police aren't heavy handed with rich white kids in Devon villages when they have wild parties

@OneTC

What do people think would be an appropriate punishment of you accept that there wasn't intent?

Surely being interviewed by the police, spending the last three years worrying you might be prosecuted and go to jail, living with the fact you've accidentally killed your friend, having to see his family every day and having half the town think you are a murderer is enough of a punishment for a 13 year old who made a stupid mistake?