Aibu to pull my child out of nursery

[Kanfuzed123]

So my daughter was SGA 2.3kg at 37 weeks. No signs of iugr or fgr, we were told constitutionally small, but who knows. Enter lots of mum guilt and blame.

She caught up to approx 15th centile by 6 months and floated in that range, got up to 25th for weight but then fell to 15th after she became more mobile. That’s fine our mid parental range is from 9-91st.

She started nursery and it’s big after big after bug, she held out ok still floating around that centile and before 2, her length fell between 2nd and 9th centile, weight stayed the same and then at a check a few months ago her weight has fallen to the same centile range and she’s now faltering growth. I feel like the worlds worst parent and like I’ve failed her. She’s got another cold and a sickness bug now again so she’ll drop further. I don’t know what to do for her. She’s been prescribed weight gain drinks but she won’t drink them. I think she eats enough to keep her ticking over (we do all the tricks to make her food higher calorie) but not enough to gain and her appetite gets affected by being constantly unwell. I’m concerned because she’s not eating enough it will impact her catch up growth. Her dietician who prescribed the shakes has said calories are required for growth and at a young age growth is largely nutrition related.

I’m at a loss, DH is depressed from it and ends up inadvertently putting pressure on her which makes it worse, I’ve stopped this as soon as i noticed, but it is a very desperate situation because we are so worried about her.

At this point, what would you do? Take her out of nursery? I’m considering it, just so her health can recover. I know she might get Ill then at school but since sep 20 she’s probably had 2 weeks cumulative of good health. She’s had 2 lots of blood tests because of how unwell she gets but they’re all normal. Are there any other tests? I do think she must be more ill than the average child.

Should I just pull her out of nursery? I’m on mat leave so I’m at home? Is it unreasonable to pull her out? Dh isn’t sure I’ll cope alone with both of this (kind of insulting but that’s another post).

She’s off her food with every sickness bug or every time she gets phlegm in her throat which is a regular occurrence with the amount of colds she has. She also passes it on to her brother who’s a newborn and I’ve already been chastised by our GP as he’s had bronchilitis twice.

Wwyd?

@Kanfuzed123

Ok *@germsandcoffee* that’s so unhelpful I’m not obsessed with her size, i don’t care how tall she is as long as she’s where she’s meant to be genetically and currently she’s not.

@Metallicalover we had nothing. I paid private for a dietitian and paediatrician, we just had so much grief from the HV around her size

What do you mean by where she’s meant to be genetically?

How much does she weigh?

What i mean @ChudraWouldaShouldya is that the normal range based on dh and my heights is from the 9th to the 91st centile, as our mid parental height is the 50th centile, so her range is 2 standard deviations either side. It’s the rule of standard deviation, 60 (odd) % of fluctuations will occur within 1 standard deviation (centile) and high 90% will be within 2 sds (centiles).

She’s about 10.4kg as of a few weeks ago but I suspect now she’s lost some weight now.

Op

Calling them and warning them is pointless. The idea is for drop in when they don't expect you.

Again unless ofstsd drops in unexpectedly... They won't catch any bad practise either.

The point is... You don't every really know what's going on unless you see it.
That's all.

Unfortunately whilst ofstsd ratings do give us some idea of standard... They are not infallible.

To get a true idea you would need to do a few drop in unexpected from time to time at lunch at midday.

But as you say covid has put a stop to drop in. Just don't take it as gospel that they are feeding her what they say they are.

It's not a risk I would take in this situation.

Op my own dd had failure to thrive at one point. Its not rare.

Your trying to think outside the box to see what you can do, your a wondeful mum.

If she loves fruit and veg, will she take anything with them? So for instance would she eat apples with peanut butter on them? Or carrots with humus or full-fat yoghurt dip? Veg sautéed in a reasonable amount of butter or oil, or with sauce on top?

Trust your instincts. Pull her out. I was a SAHM and my kids went to preschool a couple of mornings a week at 3. Winter time is terrible for bugs. Pull her out. Look up some fun things to do with her a few mornings/afternoons per week. Slow days. Cosy walks. Pressure off and build her up again.

(I recognize that this is not the root of the problem, but it's a moment when every little helps.)

@Nancydrawn

If she loves fruit and veg, will she take anything with them? So for instance would she eat apples with peanut butter on them? Or carrots with humus or full-fat yoghurt dip? Veg sautéed in a reasonable amount of butter or oil, or with sauce on top?

Won’t have pb but we do hummus with extra oil and full fat yog dip, she likes that. Same with butter and oil, all her veg, rice and pasta get a good glug xx

Mid parental measures are averages, which most but not all children will fit. Some children are naturally much smaller or larger than their parents.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be addressing this if there could possibly be an issue but you sound extremely stressed and worried and blaming yourself. I think potentially you’d benefit from working through those feelings with someone? There’s so much worry and guilt involved in parenting, potentially at some point you might crumble.

I think in your shoes I'd:

• Take her out of nursery
• Look into a mothers help (different, more flexible and often cheaper than a nanny)
• Switch GPs because your GP is not saying the right things nor does it sound like they are helping

So sorry you are going through this OP, hope your DD gets a break soon!

@JanuaryBluehoo I'm sorry but I think your posts have been unnecessarily alarmist and you've upset an already-very-upset mother.

OP, your nursery is not lying to you. They are really experienced with getting reluctant toddlers to eat - partly because the kids are so active so they get hungry, and partly because they aren't giving them too much individual attention: kids won't eat if they're being pressured.

I think that as the nursery is the place where you dd does get a good meal, have you tried asking them for tips? My dd also went through a phase where she would eat more at nursery but refuse food at home - I picked up random tips including copying their cups and cutlery which my dd preferred using. Seems random but little tweaks could help.

I have this book on kindle that I love called Getting the little blighters to eat. It has loads of great tips. Could be worth a try. Obviously in addition to paediatrician advice etc, but sometimes little tweaks can help.

@Mummy1608

Op didn't say I have a alarmed her or driven her to tears.

I didn't say her nursery was lying to her.
Please read posts carefully before making such accusations.

My own dc, one was picky and I saw her at an after school club tucking into food she never would at home.
The difference is. I saw it with my own eyes on a good few pick ups.

I've also seen behind the scenes in nursery and old peoples home.
You cannot rely on what a business tells you 100% ever. I'm sorry if that alarms you mummy but that is true of anywhere where a non verbal person is in the care of others and its incredibly naive to think other wise.

Op.

If my posts have caused you upset I apologise.

I would tend to agree with your view OP that removing her from nursery may have benefits.
My own DC has underlying health conditions, as a result of this they were more prone to illness and typical childhood illnesses were more severe. Started nursery in September 2019 and despite having always been ill from very young it escalated and the child was barely ever well. They were also born prematurely so were already on the small side and at the bottom of the charts. As a result of the repeated illness with no breaks DC was failing to grow.

We never drew a connection until lockdown came along then in March 2020. Our DC was CEV due to the underlying health conditions so was shielding and didn't return to education until April 2021 this had a huge benefit on the reduction of illness and infection and as a result it seemed that DC had the ability to grow if not hindered constantly by being unwell. I also feel now that with that extra growth their body has more resilience in fighting against illness and infection than they did before and they don't seem to get as desperately unwell as often as they did before so for us we did see the benefits of them having a sustained period to get built up and break the endless cycle!

I would take her out and give her a chance to come back on an even keel.

Your DH will just have to cope, go back to the office or find a quieter part of the house to work for some or all of the day.

Use the nursery fees for a mothers help, or pay her key worker to do some hours for you if she's not full time and that will give you a break from both babies.

Re the weight gain I'm slightly at a loss there. Some children are naturally thin and have little appetite which doesn't serve them well when they are unwell as there are no spare calories to burn.

My DD2 lost half a stone with tonsillitis pre pandemic and she is still stick thin but eats like a horse. If your DD is eating major food groups and getting plenty of fresh fruit and veg she will be more robust than many fatter children.

My sense is she will eat well when the food is normal and not full of stuff to fatten her up but that probably tastes vile. She will also do better to eat with you both and to have the company and distraction and chat, which if you are both at home should be more easily done. A big meal at lunch usually works better at that age. Then a lengthy restorative nap, a walk and early kids tea and a bath. It won't do any harm to get both into a manageable routine that will also work when you go back to work. (And for your DH to be across it too!)

@JanuaryBluehoo you’ve not upset me don’t worry, I’ve had a little cry just about my daughter in general, I’m just worried about her and blame myself for all that she’s going through. Seems so unfair she has to live with the consequences of my mistakes. Your post made me a little worried about her nursery, and definitely worried about residential care homes (but I don’t know anyone in them, and if I do, definitely will drop by unannounced)

Thanks for confirming op. As said my own dd had this for a good while and I do know how awful it is.

Not sharing my personal experience however and my tips would feel very wrong. I don't want to worry you, I did say just as a general thing really to anyone. Simply drop in when they don't know that is all.
As I said in pp you're doing A great job. One doctor did say to me... Our western standards are extremely high.

I work in a nursery.....Honestly under 3s do not really gain much from being there so don't feel guilty that she is missing anything by taking her out.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

I work in a nursery.....Honestly under 3s do not really gain much from being there so don't feel guilty that she is missing anything by taking her out.

Really @Ilovegreentomatoes? I feel she’s come on loads there, she’s so sociable and loves people, she had very little confidence before, she’d be too shy to play at soft play and now she can get stuck in, her speech and her questions etc plus she sees other children which she never really had the chance to at home with lockdowns etc

My DD was low birthweight due to my uterine artery failing. She's always been

Op. I'm sorry. I know how hugely worrying these weight gain issues are. I'd taker her out for a few months and start at nursery again in spring. In my experience winter months are terrible for bugs but it gets much better in spring and summer.

Can I ask what weight gain drinks you are using? Asking because my dc has weight gain issues as well.

I would pull her out in those circumstances yes. While it may be benefiting her development, being well will benefit her more, and she will quite quickly not have any clear memories of nursery at all.

Does she breathe OK in her sleep? DS dropped from 91 centile at birth to 25 centile and appeared to have a constant cold. HV not interested at all. Just before 3 he had his tonsils and adenoids removed because of sleep apnea and then rapidly put on weight and grew back to around 75 centile where he has stayed for years.

She’s 2 and a bit.

Your posts regarding her weight and centiles and standard deviations are very specific, but her age, not so much.

For what it’s worth, average height DS only weighed 10 kilos at just 2, so if she’s shorter than average and 10.4 kilos, she’s not that thin.

Regarding nursery, it sound like she’s off with illness so much, it’s hardly worth keeping her there. If she doesn’t need to be there, I would take her out. I know it must be difficult with DH working from home but by the sound of it, you are all at home more days than not. If she was well, there are activities you can take her to where you can take the baby along as well. You could always try her again after Easter when there are fewer viruses doing the rounds.

@Kanfuzed123 - Have they checked to see if she's immune compromised in any way? I'd ask for a referral to an immunology consultant, preferably a paediatric one.

Otherwise, what about a nanny share where the children are looked after at the other person's home. I have a family member and a couple friends who do this. Usually it's 2 children - 1 per family so far less bug exposure.

I'd also ask nursery to see their cleaning procedure especially for toys and high touch surfaces.

The worry is more so her height than weight but weight atm both are a concern as growth is nutrition based and if she’s under eating or not taking on enough she won’t grow as children often plump out before they have a growth spurt. She’s not actually under weight because she’s proportionate but she is faltering growth because there is a decrease in her growth velocity and not she’s not ‘caught up’.

@CecilyP I’ve not been specific with her age because it’s outing when combined with her weight and height etc. She’s actually not off nursery often, yeah she’s misssd a few days here and there due to illness but it’s not ‘the norm’.

@littleowls83 I’ve not noticed anything like apnea, would she have been like it as a baby too? Her constant colds started with nursery before she was fine.

@crochetandnatter she’s had several fbc done and her white blood cells and everything comes back in the normal range. Are there any other tests we could ask for? Her paed thinks she’s normal but he’s also dismissive of height concerns which is pretty irritating as those guidelines exist for a reason

I think you need to speak to someone regarding the way your feeling. A couple of your posts are quite alarming in blaming yourself, saying that your child has had the worst start etc. Have you addressed these feelings with anyone?

Also you state that your paediatrician says that she thinks she's normal. She's eating well at nursery, she goes off food when she's unwell (like a lot of children do) toddlers go through fits and starts of eating lots. You say children normally plump out prior to growth spurts, mine does not, she looses then she gains.
Genetics for height isn't just around you and your husband either, my dad is 6ft but his parents were 5ft 1 and 5ft. Way down the family line my grandads uncle was tall. All evidence is just a guide, centiles are just a guide.

One size does not fit all, OP. Life doesn't always follow a script, especially with health, especially with kids.

Nursery is great, but maybe not for her, not now at least.

If you're concerned about her health, it might make sense to pull her out, at least for a few months, and see how it goes. But that's likely to mean negotiating reduced work hours for you and/or DH. I know it sucks. You could also ask for unpaid parental leave. Sounds like you may need a break and a reset. See how things are after a few months. If she's back on track, you can try nursery again.