What makes you middle class ?

[toddlerdanger]

Inspired by another thread. Just for a bit of fun.

MN is obsessed with this. Let me start- I am not originally British - so I wasn't born into this system. But I understand it somewhat. But I would like to understand what it is that makes you middle class.

Here are my thoughts, gathered from 20 plus years of living here, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to offend, I find this topic fascinating, especially since reading so much about it on here:

• speaking in an RP accent, so not in a regional accent

• living in a period property or cottage ( an old house basically )

• playing board games and scrabble

• loving puns and word play

• having read all the classic books because you grew up with them and your parents showed you/ talked for you about them since you were young

• having parents who don't do manual jobs/ are entrepreneurs. Middle class parents seem to work in academia or in the corporate world in general.

• having parents who have a degree

• having parents that have been to private school

• having been to private school ( but not 100 percent necessary )

• having a degree yourself

• not driving flash cars, think more like a Volvo rather than a Porsche

• shopping at Waitrose

• not piercing your child's ears until they're in their teens

• not having too much flashy designer stuff. The odd bag is OK. But not constant flashing of designer stuff. More understated

• the Christmas lights things. Not too many colours, but more subdued. Think warm white vs ice white lights

• antiques in the home

• not into football, but more into rugby

This is all I can think of right now.

I am classless really, as talk of which class you are in is pointless really, quite meaningless these days.

It was written in 1979 but a lot of Jilly Cooper's non-fiction book simply called "Class" is still relevant.

Interestingly Union is also working class in places like Wales and Cornwall.

The accent thing is interesting.

I come from a WC background, live in the Home Counties (yes we exist 😤). Probably would be considered MC now by those I grew up with. But I've always had a contemporary RP accent. So no, I don't think it's a class signifier at all. Some of the poshest sounding people I know grew up on council estates.

I’m not from the U.K. but I’m curious why so many working class people describe themselves as “proudly” working class. What does that mean? And can you be proudly middle class?

@hugr

The accent thing is interesting.

I come from a WC background, live in the Home Counties (yes we exist 😤). Probably would be considered MC now by those I grew up with. But I've always had a contemporary RP accent. So no, I don't think it's a class signifier at all. Some of the poshest sounding people I know grew up on council estates.

There's a stigma with Council estates. Did the people you know have parents that had good jobs that lived in Council estates though? Talking posh is usually from your parents teaching you to pronounce your words correctly and being in circles where others do the same.

I think you've nailed it OP . Disagree with the poster who said it's based on income. That's how other countries work, not the British class system, or it would be easy to understand. For example, my parents are eternally middle class, even if they had no money, they'd still be incredibly middle class!

@Piggyk2 there is a stigma around council housing nowadays, but when I was young in the 1950s, several of my teachers and others in middle class jobs of the time lived in council houses. In the 80s, my well paid public sector manager bought his, like many others who could have afforded to buy without the discounts.

Few people who are in even average paying jobs can get council housing nowadays, so the social mix has reduced.

^^ Very true.

Middle class people (in England) pronounce scone to rhyme with on and gone. Every Scottish person, regardless of class, probably pronounces it the same way. 😄

One thing only (having been a Nanny for MC families).
Calling the evening meal ‘Supper’.

Class doesn't really have anything to do with money. It's lots of things combined. You don't have to do all the stereotypical middle class things to be middle class. You can be poor and middle class, you can be rich and working class. Most other countries just don't use a class system.

Middle class doesn't exist. It's a construct to allow some people to feel superior and to reassure themselves that they have improved on their origins. They think that they can't possibly own nice things or understand anything intellectual if they are all part of he same riff-raff.

If you have to work to live then you are very much working class. Call yourself upper working class if it makes you feel better.

Get over yourselves and simply enjoy what you have.

I thought that traditionally

Upper Class / Upper Middle - landowners
Middle Class - professional jobs and home owners
Working Class - blue collar jobs and used to be home renters.

Nowadays it's much more of a mish mash.

My maternal grandparents grew up in the slums and first jobs were in factories.

After WW2 my grandfather took the opportunity to train as a teacher and ended up a headmaster.

They did a lot of hiking, went to classical music concerts, theatre, art galleries etc and played Scrabble!

They bought their own home (new build but in a 'naice-ish' area).

Their DC went to Grammar schools / University and have professional jobs.

So how would they be classed?

@Midlander88

I like Rich Hall's definition:

Working class - your name's on your shirt
Middle class - your name's on the door
Upper class - your name's on the building.

We now have a majority new class in the UK though: Upper-Working class... your name's on your lanyard.

We're obliged to wear our name badges when we're at work, even if we're out in the community or doing home visits. Even the senior management team comply.

We get a choice of lanyard or badge though.

Reinventing myself was about surviving in my new world. At the time I was in my 20s and felt torn between my past and my future.

DH's profession has lots of social events so mixing with his fellow professionals and their partners is expected. I had a fairly neutral accent and a good job and my name was the only thing betraying my roots. The table places would be labelled "Helena, Hugo, Francesca, Oliver, Sharon (not my name but similar)".

I'm now in my 40s and I don't think I'd be as bothered now but in my 20s it felt like the only option.

I should add DH has ways been supportive, has always accepted me as I am and has never asked me to change anything.

@BloodyBridget

"No Russians"..... hahahahahaha brilliant!

Which aspiring person doesnt love a bit of Rachmaninov, Boris Pasternak or Leonid Brezhnev?

I have you chalked up as internet winner for that insight!

@Cheeko69

Interestingly Union is also working class in places like Wales and Cornwall.

Union vs League!

As I said on the sister working class thread, I struggle to relate to these discussions. Being from Northern Ireland but living in England since university, I have come across many people that assumed I was working class on accent alone. I was far to MC to correct them. Though tough if they asked how much my mortgage was and I answered truthfully (0).
More seriously, there are multiple indicators of class and really it is an amusing discussion but the real issue is barriers to entry to certain professions.

.. also can't just be about private/state education as only 6 to 7% of children attend a fee paying school..

SomeSix, I am from the east of Ireland and the same assumptions are made about me!
Like there are no MC people in Ireland?
I've stopped being polite and now put people right.
Sorry to disappoint some by telling them that my parents rarely drank alcohol, never went to pubs and I was educated privately.
However, the class system is a bit different in Ireland due mainly to it having been a church led state for so long.
Happily that is changing now.

@Bundlesofchocforme

Round here it’s driving to school when your whole family is able bodied and you live two streets away. Parking your massive car on double yellow lines inches from the school gate and covering most of the pavement so wheelchairs can’t get by and then standing gossiping to equally irritating middle class friends in the middle of the school entrance while ignoring your kids who are creating Merry hell!

Spot on ha ha ha

@SoyMarina
Next time it happens I will take your tack.
Thankfully less frequently now.

In all cases we just need to refer to that popular 20th Century composer J Cocker . "Cause when you're laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all"

"Nearly all of the posts I see started on this are from people not born in England who have a fascination with class and have decided themselves what criteria are middle class and want to know if they are right!"
This
When I worked abroad everyone was fascinated with what class I was from. I found it bizarre.
No one gives a shit in rl.
The smug box ticking lists of house, car type etc are just cringeable as if people are so thick that they see you in a certain car and think "there goes a middle class person".

Then you’ve misunderstood what working class is. It doesn’t simply mean that ‘you work’.