What makes you middle class ?

[toddlerdanger]

Inspired by another thread. Just for a bit of fun.

MN is obsessed with this. Let me start- I am not originally British - so I wasn't born into this system. But I understand it somewhat. But I would like to understand what it is that makes you middle class.

Here are my thoughts, gathered from 20 plus years of living here, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to offend, I find this topic fascinating, especially since reading so much about it on here:

• speaking in an RP accent, so not in a regional accent

• living in a period property or cottage ( an old house basically )

• playing board games and scrabble

• loving puns and word play

• having read all the classic books because you grew up with them and your parents showed you/ talked for you about them since you were young

• having parents who don't do manual jobs/ are entrepreneurs. Middle class parents seem to work in academia or in the corporate world in general.

• having parents who have a degree

• having parents that have been to private school

• having been to private school ( but not 100 percent necessary )

• having a degree yourself

• not driving flash cars, think more like a Volvo rather than a Porsche

• shopping at Waitrose

• not piercing your child's ears until they're in their teens

• not having too much flashy designer stuff. The odd bag is OK. But not constant flashing of designer stuff. More understated

• the Christmas lights things. Not too many colours, but more subdued. Think warm white vs ice white lights

• antiques in the home

• not into football, but more into rugby

This is all I can think of right now.

@Bundlesofchocforme it does but you need some babybells or a tub of philli as well so its more than 3 types :D

There's something very Victorian about perceiving society through the narrow filter of a bunch of strata: top, bottom, and of course, middle. Very one-dimensional. A bit like a kind of food chain, with the lower class as prey, and the upper class as apex predators. Darwin and Karl Marx would be proud.

Terribly old-fashioned, obviously. The social eco-system is far more complex and intermeshed, as recently evidenced by the pandemic (key workers, anyone?)
Of course class matters. And it's about money. And power. And influence. But above all it's about competition. And capitalism.
And seeing the world purely through that filter means remaining blind to the fact that alternatives exist (such as the much more socialist model of Nordic country. Or, in fact, most non-UK, or even non-English, European countries)

What's interesting to me, is what the 3-tier class model doesn't show. For instance: political orientation (left leaning or right leaning. Progressive or trafitional. Authoritarian or liberal. All different axis!), or education/intellectual power.
It's all about raw material power (through money, and influence over other people, perceived only as resources, means to an end): the traditional values of right wing people. Nothing at all here about intellectual elites (artists, thinkers, scientists). They're not on the map. They would, I guess, usually feature somewhere within the middle class. But is an author really the same thing as an accountant? I don't think so.
There's something a bit bizarre about the fact that an entire power caste (the one best placed to influence the ideas of the next generation) is not visible in the so-called class system. Especially considering that power caste tends to either lead revolutions and regime changes, or be slaughtered by them (sometimes both...)

I’d hate to have to live by that list in order to be a certain class. F@@k that, I’m in my own class , whatever that is I’ve no idea!

I would say having books in the house. Not chick lit but proper books. Having a degree. Being interested in the Arts generally. Not wearing flash designer labels or Primark. Playing board games or watching informative programmes on TV , not soap operas or Love Island.

Not drinking to the point of getting drunk.
Not showing off possessions or wearing false nails with lurid colours and stickers on them.
Not using fake tan or false eyelashes.
Cooking proper food.
Laying the table and eating as a family.
Not swearing constantly .

@User3579

I don’t believe middle class exists. I fit a lot of your description but am working class because I have to work. My mum disagrees and has always considered herself middle class for various reasons so she can look down on other people.

This, me too and happier than my mum

I've got a top from Seasalt. I'm in.

@crochetmonkey74

I am as caitlin Moran describes herself as a 'class jumper' from my very very poor childhood to my now graduate job. I think I would definitely be seen as middle class now maybe but I don't feel it. I'm a bit adrift as to where i fit in. I have all the trappings of middle class but I like all the working class things from my childhood. It's hard to explain

I totally get this. I am definitely middle class now but had a very working class upbringing. I now don't feel I fit in as either.

@UnicornsReal

I would say having books in the house. Not chick lit but proper books. Having a degree. Being interested in the Arts generally. Not wearing flash designer labels or Primark. Playing board games or watching informative programmes on TV , not soap operas or Love Island.

Not drinking to the point of getting drunk.
Not showing off possessions or wearing false nails with lurid colours and stickers on them.
Not using fake tan or false eyelashes.
Cooking proper food.
Laying the table and eating as a family.
Not swearing constantly .

The made in Chelsea lot would have a problem with the fake tan and lashes

What is upper class then? Do you need a title for that?

Yes, but I don't think knighthood necessarily counts.

Reading through this thread and the overriding opinion seems to be that your class is purely based on the number of different cheeses you have in your fridge. We had a lot of cheese earlier in the week but have since eaten it so just have cheddar left. Does this mean I am middle class just after the shopping is delivered but towards the end of the week I am back to my working class roots....it's a cheese based minefield.

@Midlander88

I like Rich Hall's definition:

Working class - your name's on your shirt
Middle class - your name's on the door
Upper class - your name's on the building.

We now have a majority new class in the UK though: Upper-Working class... your name's on your lanyard.

Why the last one? 🤨

I think there are the upper classes and the working classes. The middle classes are just working class people who aspire to be upper class. They try to achieve this by learning to speak like the queen and paying for their children’s education.

@TooManyPJs

Reading through this thread and the overriding opinion seems to be that your class is purely based on the number of different cheeses you have in your fridge. We had a lot of cheese earlier in the week but have since eaten it so just have cheddar left. Does this mean I am middle class just after the shopping is delivered but towards the end of the week I am back to my working class roots....it's a cheese based minefield.

I think it boils down to cheese too.

Jokes aside, from what I've read here- I think to me, and I'm only one idiot, the explanation that made the most sense was if your father went to work in a suit.

I think it comes from your parents basically. If they were / are professionals, then you're middle class.

Profession and 2nd generation university educated. Cheddar, white Stilton and a couple of elderly blue cheeses currently in the fridge. Oh and some of those processed cheese slices you put in burgers.

Class is always so controversial, but I find it fascinating. The issue people have with it are the basic origins of the classifications, but in my opinion it's very much a social culture and not how much someone earns, and I think it is really important not to deny it. I myself have had an extremely mixed class upbringing which has had it's difficulties, and I identify with both classes, but still don't deny class exists.

I remember an open lecture by Giddens a famous sociologists he joked that the way to tell middle class from working class was that middle class has a bigger bookcase than the tv - (most sociologist regard this terminology as out dated, really)
When we moved I worked on how many book cases we could fit in
Ahem - I must, therefore declare myself as middleclass (preens)
No I am not
(Sorry Giddens but I prefer Bourdieu theories)

I'm both a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts..... and a massive rugby league fan: never happier than when at Batley, Featherstone, Leeds or St Helens..... or on a Eurostar to Brussels.

But then again, that was possible. I suspect it will get less possible.

re cheeses
We are middle class at Christmas

As for your cheese theory, I have both Brie and Dairylea triangles in my fridge right now. My father wore a suit to work but my mother left school at 14 and grew up in a council house. I recognised the different social etiquette when visiting relatives from both sides of the family when I was very young.

When there are discussions about county lines and gang knife violence, are you a concerned citizen or worried about your son?

Think of the public houses and social clubs in the area. Which of them would you be uncomfortable walking into?

If you threw a New Year's Eve party, would the guests be more likely to include a Headteacher, a teacher, a TA or a caretaker?

If someone told you their daughter was aiming to be a nurse, would you consider this a decent aspiration with good prospects?

Similarly (a real-life example here) if someone at a hobby group said an acquaintance was a recently-qualified engineer "earning masses - about 23 thousand" would you and your spouse carefully not catch the eye of the chief instructor?

What's your social relationship with the school governors? with the PTA?

You're taking a shortcut through the churchyard and encounter the vicar. Do you say

• Evening, Welby
• Hello Justin
• Good evening, Mr Welby
• Good evening, Reverend
• Evening, Vicar

I thought it was having a green door made of felt and a very cold house. They're all a bunch of bastards aren't they? hic

having a pension that keeps the status quo

@HepzibahGreen

Middle class in the UK is thinking that only people who live in nice houses, have an an office based job and have been to university are “educated” and read books. It’s a level of small minded arrogance that enables them to believe that anyone outside of their own tiny frame of reference is a bit thick and common. So basically it’s a state of mind.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

There are 7 classes