AIBU to think drink driving and speeding are morally equivalent

[Highdaysandholidaze]

One gets treated as unforgivable, the other as a peccadillo. The sort of thing we all do, so it can’t be that bad.

But drink driving isn’t bad in and of itself. If someone wants to down a bottle of gin and drive round a deserted island then good luck to them. Drink driving is bad because it increases the risk of hurting or killing other people.

Speeding’s the same, isn’t it? It increases your odds of hurting or killing someone.

Does it make it worse if you kill someone with your car because you’re half cut rather than if you’re over the limit?

One defence people seem to have is that their speeding wasn’t dangerous. They’ll say that the speed limit was silly in that area, or that there wasn’t anyone else on the road.

But people used to say the same sort of stuff about drink driving. And tbh Lewis Hamilton will have better reflexes after four beers than I do sober.

So, AIBU?

I am perfectly content with how I use the limiter. But thank you.

@IllManneredBitch

I find phrases like 'completely in control' and 'perfectly safe' indicative of a very arrogant attitude that puts everyone on the road at risk. You aren't ever in control of all the variables and the slower you drive, the more time you have to react and the shorter your stopping distance. (Obviously I understand that driving too slowly for the conditions is also dangerous so I'm not advocating staying significantly under the limit in normal conditions either).

Driving is dangerous, a lot of people are killed and injured every day on the roads. Good, careful drivers can still make a mistake. It's never just your own life you're gambling. I take my responsibilities really seriously when it comes to being in charge of a car and I try never to lose sight of the terrible consequences a little lapse could have. I don't want to endanger anyone, go to prison, be fined or jeopardise my licence. I agree speeding deliberately is as bad as drink driving. I don't think anyone is immune to a slight drift or missing a sign occasionally and that isn't as bad as drink driving.

My problem with this is most people are deciding whether a speed is dangerous or not based on circular bit of metal with a number in it.

Using the isle man as example. What's considered safe there is considered reckless over here . And they they dont have a m.o.t either

It's the way people have been conditioned

I can see your point but drink driving has a certain level of planning and forward decision making that speeding doesn’t.
Plus you can speed accidentally for a brief period before you realise and stop immediately

Absolutely agree! My 10 yo cousin was killed by a speeding driver. I can't abide people who speed or people who as you say treat it as nothing. I really think speeding needs to be made socially unacceptable in the same way drink driving is. It annoys me when you get asked have you had any criminal convictions except speeding as if speeding doesn't matter!

I have a very simplistic view of it. It’s the law to obey the speed limits. It’s the law not to drink and drive (and I have seen so many horrific adverts around drink driving with the tag line “every drink increases your risk of crashing” that I choose not to drink alcohol at all if I’m driving).

If I was somewhere with no speed limit I would obey that law and drive to what I felt was safe.

I don't agree. There's varying degrees of both. Driving on the motorway and realising you are doing 5mph too much and slowing down is not the same as doing 40 in a 30. One large glass of wine and driving home, is a bit different to driving home after a mammoth drinking sesh.

I disagree.

Not even slightly

I understand that sentencing gives degrees, but morally to me both are the same. Breaking the law.

Anyway I’m not quite sure I’m not being made fun of so I’m going to bow out.

Interesting discussion op. Thanks for starting it. It certainly made me think.

@Ovenaffray

I have a very simplistic view of it. It’s the law to obey the speed limits. It’s the law not to drink and drive (and I have seen so many horrific adverts around drink driving with the tag line “every drink increases your risk of crashing” that I choose not to drink alcohol at all if I’m driving).

If I was somewhere with no speed limit I would obey that law and drive to what I felt was safe.

It is the law. Yet you've admitted yourself you've accidentally broken one and not the other...

I haven’t broken it in at least 8 years to my knowledge. But yes. I have, in the past, accidentally broken the law.

That's already built in to your speedometer so if it says 28 you're probably doing 26, just so you're aware.

The maximum allowable tolerance is 10% over read. So, you could think you are doing 70 but in reality are doing just less than 64.

@Tay17

Yep I also know someone who will consistently speed everywhere (full of the ‘it’s an empty road’ ‘there’s no houses’ excuses etc etc yet is in uproar when someone speeds pasts their house! Hypocritical much.

In my village we have a very active speed watch group who collect data on speeds in the 30 or 40 mph limits and are rightly vocal about some of the dangerous driving they see. One of them overtook me yesterday coming into my village on a 40 mph stretch having sat on my tail and must have hurtled into the 30mph zone at well over 50 mph, right past the spot she stands in to discourage other speeders We all make mistakes and realise we are going too fast sometimes but this was quite aggressive and very much ignoring the signs.

I agree about the “it’s an empty road” or “it’s fine I know this stretch” logic and I have experience of this logic being applied: When I was 15 a very close family member popped out to fill his car up with petrol. It was 20 minute job. When he wasn’t back after an hour we started to get concerned (this is well before we had mobiles). After two hours we were getting quietly frantic and trying to reassure each other. Not much later two police officers came to the door and told us that he had been killed in a head on crash. It transpired that the woman who killed him was over the alcohol limit and had been going at a good 20 mph over the speed limit on a piece of road “she knew really well”, she was “just nipping home” from the pub so didn’t think being a bit over the limit would be a problem. Her selfish decisions that day took a 47 year old man’s life, left a widow and three devastated young teens who I don’t think have ever really recovered. I’ll never forget that day and every time I get in my car I think “why not me?” and all I can do is moderate my own driving behaviour and hope others are doing the same.

Anyone who doesn’t accept their own fallibility and doesn’t accept that the driving rules are there for a reason and also apply to them is a concern. Whether their speed kills someone or their alcohol level the outcome is the same for their victim. I guess speed is more of an every day slip up whereas drinking and driving seems to be a more pre meditated act. Certainly the drink drivers I have known have been habitual.

@Ovenaffray

I understand that sentencing gives degrees, but morally to me both are the same. Breaking the law.

Anyway I’m not quite sure I’m not being made fun of so I’m going to bow out.

Interesting discussion op. Thanks for starting it. It certainly made me think.

I dont blame you. The way you got treated in the thread yesterday was horrible. Me and you Cleary have opposite views on this subject but I respect you opinion

It's the way people have been conditioned

It could be generational. I am old enough to remember when there were no speed limits in the UK. Outside built areas, that is.

Built up areas

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Surely being drunk behind the wheel increases the likelihood that someone will speed - either because they don't care what speed they are doing or because they can't control it due to the alcohol.

So speeding - bad
Drink driving - unforgiveable

Actually a lot of drink drivers drive well below the speed limit. They're way over the limit but they still have some awareness that they shouldn't be driving, so they slow right down, thinking it will compensate.

Actually a lot of drink drivers drive well below the speed limit. They're way over the limit but they still have some awareness that they shouldn't be driving, so they slow right down, thinking it will compensate.
You know this how?

I researched and the average over read in my car is between 2mph and 3mph over - hence setting it 2mph below.

You know this how?

Well, I know it from watching police reality programmes on the telly.

Anyway. I’m definitely bowing out now.

Thanks again for starting this op.

For me, speeding is as bad if it's in a built up area where children and people might be crossing roads, playing out etc. doing over 30 in a residential area is intolerable.

Doing 85 on the motorway I can't get so worked up about.

@PurpleDaisies

Actually a lot of drink drivers drive well below the speed limit. They're way over the limit but they still have some awareness that they shouldn't be driving, so they slow right down, thinking it will compensate. You know this how?

I read things, and sometimes remember them.

Any kind of driving where you aren't in full control of the vehicle and can cause an accident is bad in my view. This includes drink driving, speeding consistently, driving while tired, driving when not confident, driving while using a phone etc.

I know people will think driving while not confident isn't a big deal, but the only non confident people on the road should be learners. If you've passed your test, you should be able to drive confidently in all types of situations and if you can't, don't drive. You're likely to panic way more easily and cause a crash.

I read things, and sometimes remember them.

You can understand why that doesn’t seem like a very reliable source of information.