AIBU to think drink driving and speeding are morally equivalent

[Highdaysandholidaze]

One gets treated as unforgivable, the other as a peccadillo. The sort of thing we all do, so it can’t be that bad.

But drink driving isn’t bad in and of itself. If someone wants to down a bottle of gin and drive round a deserted island then good luck to them. Drink driving is bad because it increases the risk of hurting or killing other people.

Speeding’s the same, isn’t it? It increases your odds of hurting or killing someone.

Does it make it worse if you kill someone with your car because you’re half cut rather than if you’re over the limit?

One defence people seem to have is that their speeding wasn’t dangerous. They’ll say that the speed limit was silly in that area, or that there wasn’t anyone else on the road.

But people used to say the same sort of stuff about drink driving. And tbh Lewis Hamilton will have better reflexes after four beers than I do sober.

So, AIBU?

I think it's because so many more people know there's a chance they might speed.

Also speeding can be corrected, In the sense you might go over the limit unintentionally, notice and decrease your speed.

I do agree that drivers who drive over the speed limit, remain over and make manoeuvres at that speed are as reckless and dangerous as people driving over the limit.

Also, with speeding many, many people feel speeding isn't bad because they do it. Believing they are such good drivers they have control.

I went on a speed awareness course thinking that it would be a complete waste of time and was just something to do to avoid 3 points on my licence. I'd always thought of speeding as something everybody does to some degree (I'm not talking about flying through a town centre at 80mph, just 35 in a 30 now and again). I'd also always thought of drink driving as the ultimate despicable and selfish behaviour, I would NEVER drink and drive.

My mind was blown when I started thinking about it during the speed awareness course. If I hit someone and killed them doing 35 in a 30 they wouldn't be less dead than if I I'd hit them at 30 having had 5 pints. If someone hit and killed my child doing 35 in a 30, I wouldn't grieve less because 'at least they weren't drunk'.

I had genuinely never thought about it like that before. I don't think this is just because I am really thick....

@JuergenSchwarzwald

You may well be an excellent driver, but you’re not in control of physics.

It will take you longer to brake from 40 than from 30. If you hit someone (a daft drunk pedestrian, a feckless cyclist without lights or high vis, a child) at 40 you’re more likely to kill them than at 40.

And as I said above Lewis Hamilton will have quicker reflexes drunk than I do sober. So is it okay for him to drink and drive?

@PurpleDaisies

Isn’t is quite likely someone who is drink driving is also speeding?

I'd agree with that.

It’s scary that speeding is so normalised that even good people, people with a strong sense of social responsibility, think it’s kind of ok

I agree that it should not be normalised and that people who think they are law abiding speed and think it's ok. But I do think there's a context where the risks are very low. Doing 80 on a motorway in dry weather - not so bad (although it kind of pushes everyone else along at that speed - I would like to see average speed cameras on all motorways). Doing it in fog - crazy and you should have the book thrown at you. Penalties should depend on context.

I don’t think they are comparable at all. Personally I’d rather not drink anything if I’m driving. Sometimes I can have a glass of wine and feel fine, other times the same amount will make me feel lightheaded so it’s not worth the risk. I do however accidentally creep over the speed limit on occasions. Especially when our local council change the limit overnight which seems to happen on a regular basis.

Lewis Hamilton will have quicker reflexes drunk than I do sober. So is it okay for him to drink and drive

It's not ok for anyone to drink and drive.

I think if your comparing drink driving with the 120mph type speeders then you have a point.

But on the whole speeding is more of a short term lapse in concentration which is bad and is dangerous but it’s not the same as making a decision to purposely drive when not fit to do so.

Speeding isn't automatically as serious as drink (or increasingly) drug driving.

But there is a similarity in that they are both subject to artificial limits.

It's arguable that any alcohol is too much.

People virtue signalling about not breaking speed limits aren't automatically safe - just legal.

I don’t agree at all. At all. At all.

Do you have a link for your stats? I've had a quick google and can't find the right thing. The previous ones I've seen (which were similar) where for a pedestrian actually hit at the speed (ie the vehicle hasn't slowed down at all), which means they only apply to situations where the driver isn't paying attention (texting perhaps) or is too slow to react (drunk).

That said, I don't have a lot of patience with speeders. I would like to see a shift in cultural attitudes around driving. Drink driving used to be pretty much accepted and isn't anymore. I'd like to see the same happen with regards to speeding and mobile phone use.

My mind was blown when I started thinking about it during the speed awareness course. If I hit someone and killed them doing 35 in a 30 they wouldn't be less dead than if I I'd hit them at 30 having had 5 pints. If someone hit and killed my child doing 35 in a 30, I wouldn't grieve less because 'at least they weren't drunk

I think the difference is that if I am doing 35 in a 30 limit it is possible a child could run out in front of me. But I am still alert, I will still see cyclists and be aware of what's going on. The chances of me killing someone are tiny.

If on the other hand I am drunk, I may be going even faster, not aware of what's going on at all and go through a red light and kill someone crossing the road who I had ample chance to see.

There is a massive difference in risk profile for me.

[quote Highdaysandholidaze]@GunsNShips, but I don’t think I care whether someone kills me because they’ve made a choice to speed or because they’ve made a choice to have an extra beer.[/quote]
That’s not what I meant. When people speed they don’t choose to veer from lane to lane as well. When people drink drive they don’t choose to do that either and yet they doo

That said, I don't have a lot of patience with speeders. I would like to see a shift in cultural attitudes around driving. Drink driving used to be pretty much accepted and isn't anymore. I'd like to see the same happen with regards to speeding and mobile phone use

I do think mobile phone use should become as socially unacceptable as drink driving. However, when car manufacturers are putting screens on dashboards that are as distracting I am not sure what the answer to that is other than governments imposing tough regulation on car standards.

but I don’t think I care whether someone kills me because they’ve made a choice to speed or because they’ve made a choice to have an extra beer.

It’s unlikely to happen though. Millions of people speed every day and nothing bad happens at all.

Focusing on speed means statistically a driver is less likely to seriously main or kill if you hit a person.
It's an easy winner for the authorities.
If you drive at 31 in a 30 there aren't suddenly going to be people to hit appearing.🤣🤣🤣🤣

Drunk driving negatively impacts a broader set of skills needed to drive. Speeding is a narrow parameter.

Define "speeding". Is, say, driving at 22 in a 20 zone as dangerous as drink driving?

I mean at one level, how you rank things morally is up to you. If you see them as the same, you see them as the same.

To me, they're not the same. Although both are bad and dangerous, just at different levels and in different ways. And I think one big difference is that with speeding, you can correct whilst behind the wheel, and slow down almost instantly. You can't do that with drinking -- it takes hours for the alcohol to be worked out of your system.

Plus drink-driving is to a degree pre-meditated -- you know when you sink that pint, or order that large glass of wine, and you also know an hour later when you walk out to your car and get in the driver's seat. It's a series of very deliberate advance decisions. Whereas speeding is more either poor judgement, ignorance, or a behavioural failing.

I'd also like to throw in poor car maintenance. I have a personal angle on this -- my schoolfriend was killed by a woman who didn't realise that her bald tyres were dangerous and that they wouldn't stop her in time. She wasn't speeding and she wasn't drunk, but she still killed a young girl with her car. I think people who ignorantly fail to maintain their cars and then go on to hurt or kill somebody should be punished more severely.

I agree using a phone while driving is more like drink driving.

But you'll never convince me doing 90mph on a motorway in average or under traffic is dangerous.

I think we need the isle of man approach. Where your judge by how you drive rather than how fast you drive. I've driving there at 90mph on what is similar to an open country road over here. Perfectly safe

Whilst I agree that I wouldnt care if my kid was killed by someone who accidentally went over the speed limit, drove drunk, or purposefully went over the speed limit, the law does see it differently and does allow for human nature as it rightfully should.

In modern cars these days, its really easy to not notice your speed creep up to 35mph. Not an excuse, but it is what it is. That person has not made a conscious choice to drive in a manner that could be dangerous and i'm sure as soon as they notice they reduce their speed. They should probably have been keeping an eye on the speedo better, but more than likely were just trying to get from A to B. Are they a bad person, a criminal, no, they're not. Could they hurt or even kill someone, absolutely they could.

If you're drving at 50 in a 30, well, obviously you CAN notice that and that means you chose to drive like a twat and have a very good chance of killing someone.

If you've had alcohol (and I believe the limit should be zero not 35mg) then you choose to put yourself and others at risk and should take the blame for that. No one accidentally drinks alcohol.

If you're speeding you can slow down in a millisecond. If you're drunk you can't sober up in a millisecond.

Lots of accidents caused by drunk drivers happen because they're drunk and speeding.

I don't think there is a single person who drives that has never been 5+mph above the speed limit by accident. You creep up without noticing, you think the road is 40 when it's 30, someone is up your arse so you speed up a little to get distance. Lots of things happen. If you OP claim to never have sped I won't believe you.

I don't think they're the same. If you're over the limit you shouldn't be driving at all - and if I drove I wouldn't after drinking any alcohol. Someone accidentally drifting a few mph over the limit and then correcting, or temporarily speeding up to avoid a hazard is not really comparable.

The problem is that speeding is not seen as socially unacceptable, so is done routinely and deliberately rather than as an exception - like the person who was driving at 80mph (according to the electronic sign) on a residential street with a school on it, and no room for two cars to pass because of parking on both sides of the road.

@etulosba

but I don’t think I care whether someone kills me because they’ve made a choice to speed or because they’ve made a choice to have an extra beer.

It’s unlikely to happen though. Millions of people speed every day and nothing bad happens at all.

Exactly this . For the most most part speeding is a victimless crime

I got slaughtered on a thread yesterday for saying I am law abiding and don’t break the speed limit and if I do I’m mortified and ashamed.

For me, they’re the same. As is any law. And I obey the law.

I have an eye on my speed all the time and stay 2mph under the limit as much as I can. If I see my speed creep to the limit I immediately correct myself.

I can’t, of course, say I have never gone a mile or two over - yes, very occasionally for a very short period of time of a few seconds. But I correct it as soon as I can.

I never drive if I’ve had any alcohol at all. Every drink increase your risk of crashing.

@Agrudge

Not the same .

You can (and I do) drive fast and be in complete control of a vehicle.

Hope that helps

How do you magically stop at 40 in the same time/distance it would take at 30? What is your secret? Or do you simply not give a shit?