AIBU to ask if I live in one of the most restricted nations on earth - Covid related *title edited by MNHQ*

[FreedomforWA]

NC as this is outing. AIBU to think that I live in the most restricted nation in the world (well, maybe after North Korea)?

So, I’m a Brit living in Perth, Western Australia (WA). I think it is widely known that Australia basically closed to everyone at the start of the pandemic leaving tens of thousands of citizens and residents overseas. Towards the end of 2021, the individual states all started to open allowing quarantine free travel to approved vaccinated travellers. Except WA. We have continued to live with closed borders – both internal to other states and international (we can leave but due to stringent caps and hotel quarantine, it is almost impossible to return). Our state Premier announced prior to Christmas that the state would open on Feb 5th. Thousands made plans to reunite with family, return home etc. Last night he performed a u-turn and our border is staying shut due to the threat of Omicron. He has not set a future date so we are all essentially in limbo. The rest of Australia is now learning to live with covid and can travel freely. WA has only had around 1400 cases of Covid since the pandemic began with 9 deaths. We have had a few short lockdowns. Whilst I appreciate that this is excellent, striving for zero covid is not a strategy the Premier can keep up with forever. He is delaying the inevitable.

We have an 89% fully vaxxed rate in the over 12s (96% single vaxxed) but this is apparently not good enough, despite being one of the highest rates in the world. We have a mask mandate that covers any indoor premise that isn’t a private residence.

75% of our work force has been mandated to get the vaccine. This is everyone from health care workers and police to supermarket workers and builders – the list is pretty much endless. As you can imagine, there has been a lot of discontent regarding this.

The rules state that as of 31st Jan, we have to show a vaccine certificate to attend – off licenses, restaurants, bars, zoo, theatres museums, hospitals (as a visitor), sporting stadiums, arenas, casino, play centres, gyms, night clubs, music venues and cinemas. I’m pretty sure it won’t stop there. The unvaxxed soon won’t have anywhere to go. Despite being pro-vax and being triple vaxxed myself, I believe that this has gone too far.

This is a state with a significant number of expats. Many of us haven’t seen family for 2-3 years now. I know people will just say that we should leave but it isn’t easy to just leave when we have jobs, lives, homes and mortgages here.

I would love to hear outsider (or fellow WA residents) thoughts on the restrictions we are living with.

if you swap COVID for the word flu that shows how dumb it is

Yeah and if you swap COVID for lemons we can all make lemonade. If we swap COVID for verucca then my, we've all overreacted!

"Living with covid" isnt the same as "pretending covid is flu" just yet.

@MarshaBradyo Sorry, if I phrased that incorrectly. I would like it to open for purely selfish personal reasons. However, because of the issues I have listed, I am happy to keep the borders closed until the numbers for the vaxxed Aboriginals are up and until more people are triple vaxxed. We are now at approximately 25% triple vaxxed in the general population.

FFS everyone stop jumping in the OP.
She has every right to complain about the Australian government that most of you have absolutely no knowledge of. Comparing it with women in Pakistan is ridiculous, it’s like not enjoying a meal because there are kids hungry somewhere else in the world.
Australia is up shit creek and it’s getting worse. But typical MN just jumps all over people and slams them for having an opinion.
I honestly don’t know why I read these posts.
Our premiers are all corrupt and everyone just blindly follows bull shit directions
As fior you echt calm down and go back to obeying your master Dan Andrews. You’re a big fan.

[quote sunshineandlollypops]@MarshaBradyo Sorry, if I phrased that incorrectly. I would like it to open for purely selfish personal reasons. However, because of the issues I have listed, I am happy to keep the borders closed until the numbers for the vaxxed Aboriginals are up and until more people are triple vaxxed. We are now at approximately 25% triple vaxxed in the general population.[/quote]
No worries

Is it going up quite quickly? For general and Aboriginal population

I’m guessing the FI / FO issue won’t stop borders opening when vaccination is higher - As that won’t change and the issue will always be there, so it’s just rates?

@sunshineandlollypops remote aboriginal communities have had ample opportunities to get vaccinated. There has been teams going in to offer vaccinations. If their low rates is a concern then McGowan should restrict travel to those specific areas as per his previous plan. The mining issue won't go away in a few weeks, months or years. All FIFO workers will be vaccinated by now as per the mandate. We have done what was asked of us....90% double vaxxed. He needs to open now.

Sounds insane, OP. I really feel for you.

I am also in Perth and originally from here so cannot imagine the heart ache of not seeing my rellies for so long.
I still cannot believe Marky back flipped and the overall feel of everyone is frustration. We can't run and hide from covid forever.
We were very lucky to not feel the pain of lock down like over east has done for so long however now with Vax rates so high he needs to put something in place soon.

The low take up in the aboriginal communities is a concern for sure, and it's unfair I think to say they've been offered so should have taken it up given the history here. The federal government are responsible for this, and there is understandable reluctance and distrust . There's also been some evangelical groups who have got in and sowed rather extreme anti vax sentiment which has definitely not helped. These communities are served by same remote hubs as many mines, so not that simple to restrict travel either, and I do think their safety should come above expat wish to travel.

How we get over this I don't know, still pretty sure it's spreading and mark's hand will be forced sooner than later. I'm in south west on holiday at moment, there's back packers everywhere, which is the community the current cases came from and not really any restrictions being followed in the vans and campsites.

YANBU, OP. I've been staggered by the behaviour of some parts of Australia over Covid; not only draconian legislation for citizens but a shocking legal approach to those coming in from outside. It seems that the laws are far-reaching and as flexible as those using them wish them to be to suit their purpose.

I love travel, the further flung the better generally, but Australia has never been somewhere I've hugely wanted to go. I definitely don't want to now.

Yes, OP, I agree. I have friends living under these restrictions in WA and they are horrified. They said a lot of people they know are trying to move. They've also been told recently trying to order some overseas items that they will no longer deliver to Australia due to the problems it was causing the company, which doesn't bode well.

The powers being granted to the health authorities are also quite worrying from a democratic systems POV.

West Australian living in the UK - I have watched my family and friends lead a normal life during the pandemic - and been relieved they have been safe. It does feel now though that after promising to open up he is changing his mind - he could have done a mini quaranteen like 48hrs or even five days instead of a ridiculous 14 dayer.
I said to my mum its going to be months now - with min community transmission if he suddenly opens up he will get in future what he is saying the reason for keeping closed now - pressure on hospitals. There is always going to be new variants.
We have flights and accomodation for April - looks like we need to review!

No matter where you are, if we're talking about western democratic countries, covid measures raise a lot of questions about compatibility with basic citizenship rights, and the basic liberal democratic rights that underpin liberal democracy.

There is a tendency to handwave those away, but it's worth noticing that ij npretty much every country the civil liberties organisations have been really concerned about the inroads being made. Legal, but also psychological.

In my province, our legislature didn't sit for over a year after emergency measures were invoked. Many people were back to work, supermarkets had never shut down, but apparently our political representatives could not meet to govern us. We were being governed by the premier. Even the media wasn't really challenging their pronouncements.

That kind of thing is very worrying. Not letting in your own citizens who are abroad, that is very worrying, close to making people stateless. Given permanent extraordinary powers to the health minister, as in Aus. - very worrying.

What are the implications for this stuff as time goes on? Now that it's seen how easily these populations have accepted these measures?

Then the other thing is - what they heck are they thinking they will achive by not opening now? There may have been relative freedom (within rather strict bounds) till now - but everyone knows once they open up, there will be waves of illness. Probably several even if they are starting with omicron, because the building up of natural immunity also seems to be playing a part in making the population more resilient.

They've painted themselves into a corner with 0 covid thinking.

Take heart OP. YANBU
Most of the voters agree you're not being unreasonable.
Of course the tragedies and oppression taking part in other countries are terrible, but you are entitled to your feelings too.
We see what's happening in Australia and if people here think battering people protesting and pepper spraying them is acceptable, then they'd fit right in living in North Korea.
Your leaders have become unhinged despots.

I think McGowan has made the right call to delay a little. If the planning they have done is anything like the other states - based on delta not omicron it makes sense to wait a little and get the vulnerable boostered and testing ready to go. It's been a shitstorm over in the east - impossible to get tests, medical care non existent, supermarket shelves almost empty. We've spent the summer school holidays either with covid ( first half) or with nothing to do because so many things are shut due to covid or with nobody to see because they have covid. Now are bins aren't even being collected due to lack or drivers because of tcovid.

But those are really just minor inconvenience compared to the vulnerable people I know that rely on carers and the stress involved in that care being continued. IVF being cancelled. 'Elective' surgery being cancelled.
I'd swap this summer with someone in WA in a heartbeat, in fact I'd swap the last 2 years. We've spent heaps of that time separated from family who live in the same state due to restrictions anyway.

We can't live like this indefinitely.

...well, you could, you know...

150 years ago if you went to Australia that was it. You were in Australia now.

Even 50 years ago, my aunt and her family didn't expect to see us more than once a decade.

I'm not saying you should put up and shut up, but it's entirely possible to live your whole life in the same country. (I haven't left England since 1999.) You just don't want to.

“One of”, definitely, but not the worst. You’ve had the opportunity to pause and be kept safe until vaccines and treatment have been found. Your children have not had schools closed and been confined to their home, with huge developmental impacts on the youngest and mental health impacts on the oldest. The rate of job loss will have been lower, the health services coping well, all of these are good things. Yes, Covid is shit, but its shit for everyone across the planet, in different ways, and having lived in both a Covid-struck and Covid-free country during these times, the feeling of not knowing in the early days whether you’d be one of the unlucky ones and not be able to survive to look after your child long enough that they’d actually remember you is definitely not to be envied.

And at least you needn’t fear being carted into quarantine just by being a close contact - and you’re not a hamster!!

@Sarahschild what evidence do you have for all the premiers being corrupt? (apart from Gladys where we have heard the evidence).

I have family in WA so I know how you feel not being able to physically see them 😔

All the politicians are doing, is putting off the inevitable

Once WA opens up its borders to everyone, CV19 is going to spread big time but hopefully if most people are jabbed up, it should mitigate hopefully, the hospitals being over loaded and just be like a bad dose of flu for a few days!

Time will tell on that one

Talking to our son via video link, modern tech is wonderful, they are having trouble getting people to actually do work due to borders being closed so companies are getting big engineering work orders but are unable to start them 😳

WA can’t keep its borders closed indefinitely? Or can it?

If they keep borders closed, what is the long term cost, fallout?

Election year this year, May?

Will ScoMo get re-elected?

Voters have a habit of showing their disapproval 👍

I think it’s madness. I’d be so angry if I lived in WA.

I’m in Sydney. I recently had COVID, as have a lot of people I know. For every single person it was mild URT cold symptoms for a few days. That’s it. Omnicron is much milder than the other strains. To keep the whole state isolated when your vaccination rate is so high is madness. Scare mongering. Open up and get on with it like the rest of the country. Herd immunity for the win.

I work in a hospital in the eastern states. I don’t work with COVID patients. The nurses on my ward are exhausted doing double shifts, working short staffed which is incredibly dangerous on this ward. They’ve had to shut beds because of staffing issues which means the EDs are badly affected. Covid effects every part of the health system. I can understand why he doesn’t want to open up.

Anecdotally the mental health of my colleagues seems to be worse now then in lockdown

My gut feeling is that he is waiting for Omicron to peak in the Eastern states before he opens up. I can see logic in that. But I do agree that opening up before winter hits would be best.

YANBU to be angry about the measures taken.

YABU on the North Korea comparison.

Well, other places have long-standing vaccine mandates and passes, so you are not alone in that. The quarantine rules seem unduly strict, but then you are not facing a fine of several thousand euros if you refuse the jab as in Austria. So, same as some places on some points, worse on some, and better on others.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

YANBU, OP. I've been staggered by the behaviour of some parts of Australia over Covid; not only draconian legislation for citizens but a shocking legal approach to those coming in from outside. It seems that the laws are far-reaching and as flexible as those using them wish them to be to suit their purpose.

I love travel, the further flung the better generally, but Australia has never been somewhere I've hugely wanted to go. I definitely don't want to now.

Good. One less.

Good. One less

One less what?