AIBU to ask if I live in one of the most restricted nations on earth - Covid related *title edited by MNHQ*

[FreedomforWA]

NC as this is outing. AIBU to think that I live in the most restricted nation in the world (well, maybe after North Korea)?

So, I’m a Brit living in Perth, Western Australia (WA). I think it is widely known that Australia basically closed to everyone at the start of the pandemic leaving tens of thousands of citizens and residents overseas. Towards the end of 2021, the individual states all started to open allowing quarantine free travel to approved vaccinated travellers. Except WA. We have continued to live with closed borders – both internal to other states and international (we can leave but due to stringent caps and hotel quarantine, it is almost impossible to return). Our state Premier announced prior to Christmas that the state would open on Feb 5th. Thousands made plans to reunite with family, return home etc. Last night he performed a u-turn and our border is staying shut due to the threat of Omicron. He has not set a future date so we are all essentially in limbo. The rest of Australia is now learning to live with covid and can travel freely. WA has only had around 1400 cases of Covid since the pandemic began with 9 deaths. We have had a few short lockdowns. Whilst I appreciate that this is excellent, striving for zero covid is not a strategy the Premier can keep up with forever. He is delaying the inevitable.

We have an 89% fully vaxxed rate in the over 12s (96% single vaxxed) but this is apparently not good enough, despite being one of the highest rates in the world. We have a mask mandate that covers any indoor premise that isn’t a private residence.

75% of our work force has been mandated to get the vaccine. This is everyone from health care workers and police to supermarket workers and builders – the list is pretty much endless. As you can imagine, there has been a lot of discontent regarding this.

The rules state that as of 31st Jan, we have to show a vaccine certificate to attend – off licenses, restaurants, bars, zoo, theatres museums, hospitals (as a visitor), sporting stadiums, arenas, casino, play centres, gyms, night clubs, music venues and cinemas. I’m pretty sure it won’t stop there. The unvaxxed soon won’t have anywhere to go. Despite being pro-vax and being triple vaxxed myself, I believe that this has gone too far.

This is a state with a significant number of expats. Many of us haven’t seen family for 2-3 years now. I know people will just say that we should leave but it isn’t easy to just leave when we have jobs, lives, homes and mortgages here.

I would love to hear outsider (or fellow WA residents) thoughts on the restrictions we are living with.

@Lilifer Well you certainly have my sympathies @Ginandplatonic but not for any reasons to do with the lockdowns. 😊

Huh? No idea what this means.

I really feel sorry for those in WA, and I can’t see a way out for you guys while your rulers behave like this. My family in WA have essentially been trapped now for years, unable to leave or to have other family see them. They’re starting g to really struggle now with the idea that there is no end in sight.

@Blinkingbatshit And I don’t think comparing the stats of the 2 nations is helpful either - headcount per meter in OZ is teeny tiny compared to mega numbers who live on this island….higher population density in a pandemic was always going to mean we’d come off worse🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh God this old chestnut again? I thought we’d debunked that two years ago. The vast vast majority of Australia is empty. Almost all the population live in cities. The population density where people actually live is not that different to much of the UK.

Singapore here

Must be vaccinated to work anywhere
Need to show vaxxed status to go in a shop, mall, restaurant etc.
Happily we can now socialise in groups of 5 - has been 2 for much for the last year.
96% 12+ fully vaxxed, 83% 5+.
Daily testing needed if a case in a class in school etc.
Still no sports, max. groups of 5 to play in school, no singing etc.
Borders sort of opened recently but it has been very hard for anyone to get back, so hugely limited still and horrendously expensive.

@Anotherdayanotheropinion, I understand that there are countries in this world with significant human and women’s rights abuses. This thread is clearly related to covid and the restrictions placed upon us. I have asked @MNHQ to edit my title for me. Apologies if it offended, this was clearly not the intention, it was to point out that despite Australia seemingly being open again, there is a huge number of us still closed with no known date at which we will open. Atrocities happening in other parts of the world doesn’t make it ok that I am not allowed to leave my state without the risk of not being able to return. At present if I were to leave to see my MIL in another state, I would have to request permission from the WA Police to return to my own home. At present, permission is only granted to diplomats/defence forces so I would essentially be locked out of the state.

@MarshaBradyo – we don’t have another date. He has just said he will review the situation as we go. There is nothing stopping him being closed for another 6+ months by which time vaccine immunity will be significantly waning.

@whatsthepoint – we are almost 90% double vaccinated in the over 12’s, 96% single dose so far. I don’t think we are going to get much better than that. Unfortunately he has a landslide here so unfortunately I think he will get in again ☹

@nojudgementhere – thank you.

In regards to the Novax Djokovic situation – I do think it was a bit ridiculous. I agree that they needed to deport him as they have been called out for favouring celebs/sports personalities previously. However, he should never have got in in the first place. Citizens and Residents of Aus that remain unvaxxed are subject to restrictions here, they couldn’t just let him waltz in.

I'm in Perth too and think Magowan made the right decison. It isn't the right time to open with Omicron raging over east. A little more time to see how it pans out is a good idea. As for being trapped or living in a totalitarian regime, what bullshit! My life for the last few years has been mostly mask free and unrestricted, albeit sans overseas travel.. Compared to practically everywhere else we have had it easy. I know my UK and Irish friends and family have had a bloody awful time compared to here, and much as I miss them all I feel extremely lucky to live here.

[quote Anotherdayanotheropinon]@nojudgementhere 😂😂😂 So I’m happy to be oppressed because I have a sense of perspective and realise OP is not living in the most restrictive place in the world except maybe bar North Korea!!!![/quote]
If you're living under the restrictions in WA then yes, I'd say you were a little oppressed and possibly a little brainwashed too by the way you seem all for it. I don't think anyone is seriously trying to suggest Australia is equivalent to North Korea though so maybe you should calm down a bit?

🙋‍♀️ I am over here in NZ prison. Not allowed out without giving up my job, house etc as I am not allowed back into the country as I don't have PR or citizenship, even then you need to win the managed isolation lottery (and pay $3.5k) There are NZ citizens who can't get back in as you have to enter a lottery system to get a space in managed isolation.
I have heard horror stories of people trapped overseas who have lost their jobs and homes and still cannot secure a place in MI to get back.
I have no idea what NZs end goal is with COVID? Stay locked up forever?

Bloody hell, did @echt not have her weetabix this morning?? 😂😂 calm down love

Actually @Ginandplatonic
architectureau.com/articles/australian-cities-among-the-largest-and-least-densely-settled-in-the-world/

[quote Ginandplatonic]@Lilifer Same here. I dont ever want to visit Australia now because of the way they have treated their citizens during the pandemic

FFS what on earth do you people think went on here that was so vastly different from the UK?? Come or don’t come I don’t care but trust me we don’t need or want your weirdly patronising “sympathy”.[/quote]
I know right? We’ve actually had a pretty decent 2 years all things considering. Nothing like the horrors I read about in the UK!

OP I’m in NSW and you have my sympathies. But WA has always been weird so your kind of being unreasonable. The Premier is catering to a population that have long flirted with the idea of seceding and seem to have little interest in the rest of Australia. None of this surprises the rest of us.

To a PP, yes WA is very big and they can travel around it but it’s also pretty bloody empty. So it’s probably a weird combo of claustrophobia and agoraphobia.

Australians are outward looking. We want to travel. We don’t do the short beach holiday/ city weekends abroad that you guys can do in the UK but we are a nation of immigrants and usually travel regularly overseas to see families. Our young people are usually found backpacking all over the world.

But closing international borders until we were vaccinated made sense. We’ve had a tiny fraction of deaths. @Blinkingbatshit yeah but those figures dont take into account that most of Australia is uninhabitable. The population is mostly in a narrow edge around the coast. We have crowded cities too!

How overdramatic.

This week a young woman in Pakistan has been sentenced to death for some Whatsapp messages she sent. But no, YOU live in the most restricted nation on Earth, because your government didn’t allow loads of old and vulnerable folk to die for your convenience.

FFS.

You forgot China.

[quote Blinkingbatshit]Actually @Ginandplatonic
architectureau.com/articles/australian-cities-among-the-largest-and-least-densely-settled-in-the-world/[/quote]
We have huge sprawling suburbs on the outskirts of all big cities. Those are barely part of the city (it’s a looooong drive to get to the CBD). Totally agreee those are way more spacious than what you’d generally get in the UK. But look at inner city Sydney on Google maps. It’s pretty crowded. Not Hong Kong or New Delhi density, but we aren’t all living on spacious estates. I grew up in inner city Sydney in tiny Victorian terraces, much more crowded than my street in London. We squash on to crowded public transport too.

@EatYourVegetables

How overdramatic.

This week a young woman in Pakistan has been sentenced to death for some Whatsapp messages she sent. But no, YOU live in the most restricted nation on Earth, because your government didn’t allow loads of old and vulnerable folk to die for your convenience.

FFS.

And you're calling the OP dramatic? How ironic! Nobody is saying the government should have let loads of old and vulnerable folk die. They're saying that now WA have vaccinated a large percentage of their population and Omicron is proving to be much less dangerous they should be allowed to travel freely again. There is a difference.

I wouldn't open up in Feb if I was Magowan either.

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

I'm in Perth too and think Magowan made the right decison. It isn't the right time to open with Omicron raging over east. A little more time to see how it pans out is a good idea. As for being trapped or living in a totalitarian regime, what bullshit! My life for the last few years has been mostly mask free and unrestricted, albeit sans overseas travel.. Compared to practically everywhere else we have had it easy. I know my UK and Irish friends and family have had a bloody awful time compared to here, and much as I miss them all I feel extremely lucky to live here.

But we know how it is going to pan out. Cases rise, they peak and then over the coming weeks and months, they steadily fall. Unfortunately a very tiny percentage of those will lose their life. The health system will be put under pressure. But wouldn't it be better doing that in summer without the added impact of winter illnesses and with the current high level of vaccine immunity. We have seen what happens with this virus across the world and we have been in a privileged position to wait for high vaccination levels, new drugs to treat it with etc. Waiting to see how things pan out over east won't change the fact that it will come here one day, it is just delaying the inevitable.

And once again, I didn't say that it was a totalitarian regimen, that was another poster. I can't leave the state though as there is a very significant chance that I won't be allowed back in. I have friends that have had their G2G passes rejected and are now living in limbo. I would call that trapped.

@FreedomforWA I'm in Victoria and have no close links to WA but I'm so irrationally angry at his decision. As you said, he's just delaying the inevitable.

Also, the fact you have to be triple vaxxed and then still do a 14 day quarantine completely ridiculous if you ask me.
Can't see how that's going to work for the allowed travellers who are trying to get in to see a loved one who is terminally ill or palliative care, life doesn't give you a 14 day warning for these things.
Mark McGowan seems to be getting a lot of support from West Australians though from what I read, go figure 🤷🏻‍♀️

@nojudgementhere maybe you should actually read the OP where OP said AIBU to think that I live in the most restricted nation in the world (well, maybe after North Korea)?

@FreedomforWA I haven’t heard much about the covid restrictions in North Korea - what are they?

@StartupRepair

I wouldn't open up in Feb if I was Magowan either.

Why not February and when would you?

Out of interest

OP I do agree that it’s better to do it over the summer. I think end of a Feb would be a better compromise. I do think NSW was too fast dropping all the restrictions just as omicron came in. Another couple of weeks would’ve made a big difference to numbers. But our premier was brand new and buying our love.

I feel sorry for you OP, if you swap Covid with the word flu that shows how dumb it is, covid isnt going away, its changing everyone will catch it eventually and the whole world is going to have to live with it, just like the spanish flu just changed and flu can change to be more deadly anytime.

Epidemiologists across the world have been pretty clear from Feb/March 2020 that now covid exists it will spread worldwide. Government and media narratives that the virus will go away if we all just complied nicely with lockdowns were always wishful thinking at best, and downright lying at worst. (I’m not against lockdowns per se - the first UK lockdown was needed to buy us time to learn about the virus and to give NHS time to prepare for example).

What I don’t quite get is why some countries and individuals seem to be unable to accept this. It seems that two years on some in Australia - and elsewhere - are in complete denial. And so are making policy for the world they’d like to exist, rather than the world as it actually is. Which helps no one.

I’m no fan of the UK govt in general, but at least they have grasped the fact that the challenge is not whether covid is widespread in society, but is rather how to manage and live with covid going forward.

I have read the thread. No one has mentioned how Perth and most of WA is so heavily reliant on resources. The resource sector (Mining) has kept the WA economy afloat for the last two years. (Many locals would argue that is has kept the country's economy afloat). Not sure if the rest of the world is aware, but most of the mining workforce are Fly In/ Fly Out. Workers will stay at the mine sites for periods of 1 week to several weeks. If these sites become infected, hundreds of workers could potentially be infected. Resulting in the mines shutting down.

No one has mentioned that a high number of Aboriginal population has not been vaxxed. Many of these communities are remote and if there is an outbreak I don't know how they would cope.

I hope the state opens up soon. Like many, most of my family lives overseas, but there is too much at stake at the moment.

@sunshineandlollypops

I have read the thread. No one has mentioned how Perth and most of WA is so heavily reliant on resources. The resource sector (Mining) has kept the WA economy afloat for the last two years. (Many locals would argue that is has kept the country's economy afloat). Not sure if the rest of the world is aware, but most of the mining workforce are Fly In/ Fly Out. Workers will stay at the mine sites for periods of 1 week to several weeks. If these sites become infected, hundreds of workers could potentially be infected. Resulting in the mines shutting down.

No one has mentioned that a high number of Aboriginal population has not been vaxxed. Many of these communities are remote and if there is an outbreak I don't know how they would cope.

I hope the state opens up soon. Like many, most of my family lives overseas, but there is too much at stake at the moment.

If you’d like it to open up soon won’t those issues still be there?