AIBU to ask if I live in one of the most restricted nations on earth - Covid related *title edited by MNHQ*

[FreedomforWA]

NC as this is outing. AIBU to think that I live in the most restricted nation in the world (well, maybe after North Korea)?

So, I’m a Brit living in Perth, Western Australia (WA). I think it is widely known that Australia basically closed to everyone at the start of the pandemic leaving tens of thousands of citizens and residents overseas. Towards the end of 2021, the individual states all started to open allowing quarantine free travel to approved vaccinated travellers. Except WA. We have continued to live with closed borders – both internal to other states and international (we can leave but due to stringent caps and hotel quarantine, it is almost impossible to return). Our state Premier announced prior to Christmas that the state would open on Feb 5th. Thousands made plans to reunite with family, return home etc. Last night he performed a u-turn and our border is staying shut due to the threat of Omicron. He has not set a future date so we are all essentially in limbo. The rest of Australia is now learning to live with covid and can travel freely. WA has only had around 1400 cases of Covid since the pandemic began with 9 deaths. We have had a few short lockdowns. Whilst I appreciate that this is excellent, striving for zero covid is not a strategy the Premier can keep up with forever. He is delaying the inevitable.

We have an 89% fully vaxxed rate in the over 12s (96% single vaxxed) but this is apparently not good enough, despite being one of the highest rates in the world. We have a mask mandate that covers any indoor premise that isn’t a private residence.

75% of our work force has been mandated to get the vaccine. This is everyone from health care workers and police to supermarket workers and builders – the list is pretty much endless. As you can imagine, there has been a lot of discontent regarding this.

The rules state that as of 31st Jan, we have to show a vaccine certificate to attend – off licenses, restaurants, bars, zoo, theatres museums, hospitals (as a visitor), sporting stadiums, arenas, casino, play centres, gyms, night clubs, music venues and cinemas. I’m pretty sure it won’t stop there. The unvaxxed soon won’t have anywhere to go. Despite being pro-vax and being triple vaxxed myself, I believe that this has gone too far.

This is a state with a significant number of expats. Many of us haven’t seen family for 2-3 years now. I know people will just say that we should leave but it isn’t easy to just leave when we have jobs, lives, homes and mortgages here.

I would love to hear outsider (or fellow WA residents) thoughts on the restrictions we are living with.

@Lacaola

Echt- I know exactly what totalitarianism is, and it looks exactly like what has been happening in Australia over the past two years. Out of control police, people locked in their homes, unvaxxed people treated like lepers.... Horrific.

As I said in my previous post, I absolutely will be staying away! Nothing would induce me to visit Australia now. So we can all rest easy.

No, you don't know what totalitarianism is.

Try this one on for size:

www.britannica.com/topic/totalitarianism

As a Queenslander I can see your point in a way. We have enjoyed pretty much the whole pandemic without losing freedoms that others have lost in terms of months on end lockdowns. And these prolonged lockdowns have happened all over Europe and Australia bar from a few exceptions (ie us!). We have had more freedoms that you most would ever imagine (especially with our beautiful beaches just like WA). It's pretty confronting seeing our numbers now but we seem to be doing OK and our death toll is tiny.

Trust that your Premier is taking good advice from the public health system and see you on the other side 😀

@echt I already covered that it isn't a nation. However for those of us living here it may as well be. We are cut off from the rest of Australia. It is the Nation of McGowan.

@LankylegsFromOz

As a Queenslander I can see your point in a way. We have enjoyed pretty much the whole pandemic without losing freedoms that others have lost in terms of months on end lockdowns. And these prolonged lockdowns have happened all over Europe and Australia bar from a few exceptions (ie us!). We have had more freedoms that you most would ever imagine (especially with our beautiful beaches just like WA). It's pretty confronting seeing our numbers now but we seem to be doing OK and our death toll is tiny.

Trust that your Premier is taking good advice from the public health system and see you on the other side 😀

Its because he hasn't prepped the health system. He has had 2 years to prep and he hasnt. Another few months isn't going to do anything. He can't even give us a date now.

It’s all very interesting.

The overall impression I get of Australia as a nation is that they are very insular and closed of in general considering how much open space they have vs how tough they are on migrants.

Virtually all of my in law relatives are in Perth. I was supposed to be visiting them in 2020.
When we were so restricted for so long, I have to say I was envious when I saw photos on their Facebook pages of them having big family meals, hugging (that probably got to me more than anything when I couldn't see, or could see but not hug my daughters) and having lovely holidays.

But now it's time for WA to join the rest of the world. You're well protected, the virus seems to be getting weaker. And selfishly I want to see my estranged family. Some of them are very old now.

I totally understand your frustration.

Estranged? Fat from it! Extended!

Ugh. Far. Fat is what my fingers are.

You are so right. I mean I think of those living under the Taliban regime, gay men being stoned to death, women being raped and denied an education unable to leave their homes without male permission. I think of Hong Kong where democracy is being squashed by China. I think of my friend who was forced to flee Venezuela after attending protests against the president and who hasn’t seen her family in years.

Then I think cop yourself on. Think of the oppression of @FreedomforWA living in Australia. They have it so much worse. I hope you are ok Op. I really do.I don’t know where you find the strength.

It's great that you've put Covid off until everyone's vaccinated and you can have a stock of anti-virals for the CEV.

The temporary problem is that with Omicron's contagion and virtually no natural immunity, once it takes hold in Perth you'll all get it in a matter of weeks, which could overwhelm the hospitals and other public services, especially if you require compulsory self-isolation from staff who test positive with low or no symptoms.

Your options are to go ahead and hope for the best, to put restrictions in place to slow it down just enough, or to go gung ho and abandon compulsory self-isolation (perhaps with a two month freeze on elective procedures).

I am in Queensland and envy you. Our Premier backed down and opened the borders - BAD DECISION. My fucken oath was it a baaaddddd decision!! In the small rural community I live in there has already been 300 cases. Before the borders opened? Not one single case in the entire pandemic. I want Qld to slam shut again and close the borders for good - for the foreseeable future. If I may be honest I think you're being ungrateful and I would trade places with you in 2 seconds. We may be the 'most restricted' nation (or state regarding WA), but we are the most sensible nation. If the UK and US followed Australia, they wouldn't have such the disastrous fatalities they do now.
So, #proudly a resident of the most restricted nation on earth, and long may it be that way! Get McGowan to talk to Annastacia and get her to do the same.

*You don't know what totalitarianism is, do you?

Do WA a favour and stay away.*

Totally agree @echt . That poster was not just ignorant but very offensive.

I’d leave sorry.
If leaving there makes you feel like you are in a totalitarian country, if you strongly disagree with the rules there, then you leave.

At least, you have somewhere else to go to (even though with much higher death rate).

[quote FreedomforWA]@echt I already covered that it isn't a nation. However for those of us living here it may as well be. We are cut off from the rest of Australia. It is the Nation of McGowan.[/quote]
No it isn't, and your use of it as metaphor undermines understanding of how Australia works politically, ie. the division of state and federal.

Nation of McGowan my arse, you sound like the Dictator Dan crew in Victoria.

Btw in case there is any confusion, I mention if the OP FEELS like it’s a totalitarian state, not that it is!

Sounds like a tough situation, OP. But I'd give it a while before making any big decisions. They've just found a few "mystery" omicron cases in Perth; I don't think they can keep the virus out much longer.

[quote Ginandplatonic]@Lacaola that’s just the teensiest bit hyperbolic perhaps. Thanks for your sympathy but let me assure you that looking at the number of deaths in the UK, no one in Aus is wishing we’d handled it more like they did[/quote]
Right on! I wouldn't choose to be in the UK if you offered me 50 million dollars! I'm proud of the way the Premiers have handle this (until QLD etc caved) and am proud of Australia's lockdowns. Poll after poll after poll after poll even now still show most Australians support the lockdowns. It's only the noisy minority of troublemakers who don't.

@Lacaola

YANBU. I have been horrified at the scenes coming out of Australia and the totalitarianism and cruelty that has been enforced. I am sorry you are going through this. It has made me not want to visit, ever.

Yeah, it's been horrible trying to decide whether to holiday in Noosa or Malloolaba 🙄

"AIBU to ask if I live in one of the most restricted nations on earth"

The above was your opening question @FreedomforWA

to which I voted that you are being unreasonable, as I am answering that question, which does not seem to be Covid related, not your fuller question just below that one. You actually did suggest later that maybe WA might not be quite as bad as North Korea, so I didn't think that you were mainly talking about NK's Covid problems.

My negative vote was because if you are a woman (and the likelihood is that you are), I believe that in nearly every country run by Muslims, the females from birth to death (but particularly from their school days to their menopause) live a much more restricted life than most of us could ever imagine. I think that the females in NK may come close to that restrictiveness, but by the very nature of NK it is hard to know exactly how bad it is to live there (certainly much, much worse than either WA or the UK) for all of it's citizens, compared to the females in Muslim run countries.

If you are only asking in respect of the pandemic, and what your state restrictions have been, I don't think that you are being unreasonable, with regards to the free world. I don't have much idea what it is like in any of the Communist countries.

From my UK perspective I’ve been amazed at how compliant it seems the Australia and NZ population have been as a whole during the pandemic. Seemingly willing to endure massively harsh restrictions when covid rates haven’t been that high. And when everyone knew that at some point covid was impossible to keep out indefinitely anyway.

And the treatment of Novak Djokovic has been ridiculous, I’d be embarrassed if I was part of the Aus govt. They’ve outright admitted that him being in Aus is a negligible health risk but that his “free thinking”
could have a negative impact on vaccination rates. The idea that a democratic country with supposedly free speech can feel so threatened by one bloke who hasn’t been vaccinated is both scary and laughable. It’s not even as though Djokovic has been preaching any anti-vac rhetoric, all he’s done is to decide not to be vaccinated.

My WA resident cousin is delighted that they are not now opening up as planned. We hope to visit eventually.

[quote nojudgementhere]@FreedomforWA - I agree - it must be like being in prison and it makes me feel claustrophobic thinking about it. 💐 to you and anyone else out in WA who's struggling. If it were me I'd be on the first flight home.[/quote]
Can WA residents not travel freely within the state?

I thought they could, so apologies if I'm wrong, but if I'm right it's nothing to feel claustrophobic about. WA is huge - several times bigger than the whole of the UK.

Well the major restriction that they've had had been immigration controls, and that's not really something where you have a choice of whether to be compliant or not - you can hardly force your way onto a plane. And the people most affected and inclined to protest and riot are by definition not in Australia.

I think that if you're looking at the situation in Aus and NZ from a UK perspective , you're actually looking at it from a UK media perspective. Which is giving you one tiny piece of the story. In NZ there is not really a sense of compliance, more a sense of protecting our communities and for some people that is actually wearing very thin now. There is objection to the vax mandates but of the people for whom vaccination is required, the proportion of people objecting and not getting vaxxed is actually quite small. You have to remember that culturally NZ, Aus and the UK are really different. And the nature of our respective diversity is different too. So I do take some objection to dismissing Aus and NZ as 'compliant' when actually the population at large is reacting to their governments handling of things in a way that reflects their cultural priorities. And for the record, there is a general feeling here that unvaxxed medical staff and teaching staff are putting others at greater risk when there is no need. It seems to be a fairly cut and dried opinion amongst a majority.

It seems kind of silly not to seize the opportunity with a highly vaccinated population and a mild variant to let it in. If they don't now, then when? And we know vaccine protection seems to wane quickly - will people keep having vaccines at such a rate if they are not being exposed to the thing they are vaccinated against, and if not then there may be less vaccine protection when they do eventually open the doors.