To point out that mandatory vaccines are completely normal for doctors and nurses and part of their registration

[NeedAHoliday2021]

Yes covid is adding a new one but in healthcare, ALL doctors must have Hep B and various other vaccines to practice. Similarly, midwives must have certain childhood vaccines to protect newborn babies they’ll come into contact with.

COVID adds a new one to the list and is a change as it encompasses non clinical staff but for clinical registered staff, mandated vaccines isn’t a new thing.

I’m pointing this out because I only learned this in the last year and don’t think many non clinical people are aware.

Won’t not went (typo)

There are almost no doctors refusing the vaccine
The only one I have heard of is that chap on the news, with his ‘breathlessness’ clinic
Everyone else was keen to get theirs as soon as they could

Apologies for not being clear. I’m in England.

@DappledOliveGroves

I'm not anti-vax. I've had my two jabs and booster and have also had Covid. But I don't agree with mandatory vaccination for NHS or care workers.

At the start when the jabs were first being rolled out then I could understand the logic in that they were supposed to stop the spread and reduce transmission. It's abundantly clear, a year on, that they do not do this. These jabs are wholly unlike smallpox or measles or chickenpox - if you're vaccinated against those diseases you don't catch them. With Covid, you can be triple-vaxxed and easily catch Delta or Omicron and just as easily spread it.

Fundamentally it appears that the risk of being unvaccinated lies with the individual who hasn't had any vaccines. That's a personal choice. If their choice has sod all impact on those they care for then why on earth should there be mandatory vaccination? I can't see it's worth risking hundreds of thousands of jobs in a system that's already broken and on its knees, to make some kind of principled point.

My mother is in a care home. She's 82, has advanced dementia and I have no issue with those looking after her being unvaccinated.

Thank you. A common sense approach.

I will bet my bottom dollar, that the majority of those unvaccinated staff have had a previous covid infection anyway; so likely to have some antibodies/immunity.

I feel the mandate is completely wrong and goes against the principles of nursing; consent and right to refuse.

@canary1 the only doctors I know are very nervous of needles rather than the actual vaccine.

Hep B vaccinations are actually not mandatory but are sold to us like they are. If you refused it I doubt there is anything they could do.

Careful @SarahBop it seems our common sense approach is very dangerous! Haven't you heard of the long covid that everyone has? Fucking hell!
@HelloFrostyMorning I'm more worried that you're prepared to let the government have this kind of control over people. Very scary.

@NeedAHoliday2021

There are a LOT of HCPs refusing it though, moreso than any other profession.

What makes you think that? I don’t think that’s true at all from data I’ve seen (I can’t share as it’s not public data). Those not vaccinated in my hospital are usually band 4 or below staff.

Probably because they've read it in the Daily Mail!

I commenced paediatric nurse training in 1962, we all had to be vaccinated for diphtheria, whooping cough, polio and tuberculosis no choice (didn't dare argue) while in PTS. Also remember going for flu vaccine for several years during training.

@Sosigsandwich

Those other vaccines have been around for years and the long term effects are known. The fact that 90k medical professionals are refusing it speaks volumes about how they feel about it. I think forcing someone to have a medical procedure against their will is horrific.

They're not being forced to have it against their will. Nobody is pinning them down and injecting them. But if they choose not to have it, they can't do that job.

@NeedAHoliday2021

Yes covid is adding a new one but in healthcare, ALL doctors must have Hep B and various other vaccines to practice. Similarly, midwives must have certain childhood vaccines to protect newborn babies they’ll come into contact with.

COVID adds a new one to the list and is a change as it encompasses non clinical staff but for clinical registered staff, mandated vaccines isn’t a new thing.

I’m pointing this out because I only learned this in the last year and don’t think many non clinical people are aware.

I am not in healthcare but the big difference here is the others are old well established vaccines and covid is new with experimental vaccines and will be temporary as pandemics always are.

so if I was already in a healthcare job as far as I am concerned being asked long after contracts signed to take an experimental vaccine would be a deal breaker and nothing like the others which I would have been aware of when I applied for the job in the first place and accepted as a condition of employment at the time.

thus it is a totally different kettle of fish unless you are talking about new recruits right now after the rules were change to say covid jabs are mandatory for the field.

@VelvetChairGirl what makes you think that covid is an experimental vaccine. It is in stage 4 as is a packet of paracetamol that you buy!!

[quote HelloFrostyMorning]@Theballoonsinthesky

A lot of the people refusing it have had covid and recovered. Why on earth would they need it?

Wow, this statement is one of the most clueless and ignorant things I have read on mumsnet.

You have CLEARLY never heard of long-covid then, and the awful after effects people have got! Also, very VERY few people who are unvaccinated, have symptoms that are 'just like a cold' when they have covid.

Stop spouting dangerous shit! [/quote]
What does recovered immunity have to do with Long Covid? Why would someone immune need the vaccine? Why isn't immunity being established before administering the vaccine?

Oh, and I have Covid right now. It isn't even as bad as a cold - no runny nose. I completely accept that this is not everybody's experience. But the overwhelming likelihood is that it will be a mild illness for most. This seems to have been lost sight of.

(And I'm unvaccinated, I should have added.)

[quote qualitygirl]@VelvetChairGirl what makes you think that covid is an experimental vaccine. It is in stage 4 as is a packet of paracetamol that you buy!![/quote]
because its still in trial until 2023 and has an emergency license due to the pandemic (regulation 174 temporary authorisation).

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1125/made

[quote qualitygirl]@VelvetChairGirl what makes you think that covid is an experimental vaccine. It is in stage 4 as is a packet of paracetamol that you buy!![/quote]
oh and I dont buy paracetamol so why have you convinced yourself that I do and stuck a exclamation mark on it?

how much paracetamol do you use in a week? if you think everyone buys painkillers.

@VelvetChairGirl Pfizer and bioNtech are finished phase 3 clinical trials. Now in phase 4,

@NeedAHoliday2021

Thanks for clarifying, OP.

They're not being forced to have it against their will. Nobody is pinning them down and injecting them. But if they choose not to have it, they can't do that job.

Exactly. If your workplace brought in new technology and you refused to learn it you would be redeployed or dismissed.

@Spudina without hep B in England a doctor wouldn’t be granted licence to practice.

[quote NeedAHoliday2021]@Spudina without hep B in England a doctor wouldn’t be granted licence to practice.[/quote]
Do you think the GMC have different rules for members in England? Or do you think that Doctors have a different registration body in the rest of the UK? Or are you possibly not sure of the ‘facts’ you keep providing without evidence?

@BungleandGeorge just what 2 medical directors said - one a paediatrician and one a surgeon. I’ve no reason to question them.

@BungleandGeorge looks like it’s dept of health guidelines 1993, supported by Royal College of Surgeons in England.

Here’s the “green book” advice:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/147882/Green-Book-Chapter-12.pdf

Spudina, bungleandgeorge

No one will force you to have a Hep B vaccine or a Covid vaccine.

But no one will employ you in the NHS to work in your clinical role.
Private providers will have same requirements as NHS providers.

OP is spot on with this.