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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that mp’s defecting to another party shouldn’t be allowed?

206 replies

AlternativePerspective · 19/01/2022 13:44

So Christian Wakeford has defected to labour over the whole Boris fiasco.

Fair enough, he wants no part in it and wants out. However, when people vote for an mp they vote for a party, not an individual. Therefore an elected mp defecting to the opposition is essentially giving a seat to that opposition without the vote of his constituents, who hadn’t wanted that party in place Because they didn’t vote for them.

So if he wants out, he should resign from his constituency so that his constituents can decide whether or not they want labour in power or not.

I mean, if you lived in a Labour constituency and your mp became a Tory I presume people might have something to say about that (I would,) so surely it should just be a blanket policy?

OP posts:
Shiningpath · 19/01/2022 13:58

OP you’re totally wrong, please just accept it. I’m our current system electors vote for candidates. If an individual elector chooses to base their vote on party, leader or what their elderly auntie had for lunch last Tuesday, that is a matter for them. And more fool them if they don’t understand the consequences.

ZenNudist · 19/01/2022 13:58

Considering all the mumsnetters who have justified voting tory on the grounds they have voted for their MP then YABVU.

I've been voting Labour in the last few elections not because I wanted Corbyn for PM but because of my excellent MP.

Unescorted · 19/01/2022 13:59

@AlternativePerspective

You’re wrong. When you vote you vote for the party who is represented by the candidate.

You don’t tick “mike smith” in the box, you tick the name of the party you’re voting for.

a guide to ballot slips for you
girlmom21 · 19/01/2022 13:59

@CorrBlimeyGG

What happens to the current Labour candidate for the constituency?

There isn't a local Labour candidate. They're not selected until close to the next election.

Oh I didn't realise. I just assumed the candidates remained the same. Thanks!
Kitkat151 · 19/01/2022 14:00

@AlternativePerspective

You’re wrong. When you vote you vote for the party who is represented by the candidate.

You don’t tick “mike smith” in the box, you tick the name of the party you’re voting for.

No, you are wrong
AwaitingSueGraysInvestigation · 19/01/2022 14:00

@DGRossetti

How about when a Prime Minister is replaced ? Should that trigger a general election ?
It almost always does in practice. The exception I can think of from memory is Gordon Brown, who stayed in Number 10 for three years before going to the country. Other 'drop-in' PMs John Major, Theresa May, and Boris Johnson have gone to the country pretty soon after being elected leader by their party. Because there's a tacit understanding, I think, that if you didn't get there through winning a general election you're there on someone else's mandate.
DGRossetti · 19/01/2022 14:01

The public dont elect the prime minister. The party with the majority do.

I am well aware of that. But a change of PM usually prompts questions like this.

The fact most people don't understand how voting works would seem to be a good reason to limit it to those that do ...

TameDucksAtChatsworth · 19/01/2022 14:04

A person stands for a party unless they are independent.

That's how they count the votes- by party.

Most people say they voted, Labour etc, they don't say they voted for Joe Knob.

If you were a vegan and had a subscription to a Vegan grocery box and they then said they were changing to Carnivores R us, you wouldn't want to keep your subscription because they have totally changed.

Why should the electorate be stuck with someone representing a party they didn't vote for on the whim of one person.

It is bloody deceptive to change hue when you were elected as a member of a party. An honorable person would trigger a by-election.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 19/01/2022 14:04

I agree OP, but only if the MP is a member of a party and moves to another. The electorate in that constituency should have the opportunity to decide if they still support the MP now they have joined a different party.
MPs aren't free to vote in parliament as they wish on the whole, so it's not as simple as saying people vote for the MP.
This should also apply where an MP has been kicked out of a party - this would have saved time and effort in the case of Fiona Onasanya for example, who was kicked out of Labour.

DGRossetti · 19/01/2022 14:05

It almost always does in practice. The exception I can think of from memory is Gordon Brown, who stayed in Number 10 for three years before going to the country. Other 'drop-in' PMs -- John Major

become PM in 1990 and held on until the election was due in 1992.

I was there.

And after becoming PM in 2016 we had to wait a year for Theresa May to call an election, so hardly a sprint to the ballot box.

That leaves Boris. And when all you have left is Boris you are well fucked.

Oldraver · 19/01/2022 14:06

This happened in my constituency a few years ago

I live in Cameron country, a very very safe Conservative area. Previous MP defected to Labour I think around the Blair era. The majority vote will always be Conservative regardless of the candidate, so it is wrong for them to defect. They should give up the seat and try to get voted in for their new party

55Jumbo · 19/01/2022 14:06

I agree, OP. If it's purely about the individual they wouldn't have a rosette in a particular colour, or stand on a manifesto named for the party they're in.

DGRossetti · 19/01/2022 14:07

Why should the electorate be stuck with someone representing a party they didn't vote for on the whim of one person.

Probably because in a lot of cases the electorate gets stuck with a candidate the majority didn't want. So for the sake of consistency, if nothing else.

KiloWhat · 19/01/2022 14:08

You vote for the candidate. As long as they carry on with what they promised they'd do for the local area I don't see the problem.

Itsalmostanaccessory · 19/01/2022 14:09

I dont think the OP will come back. They dont often return when they've told everyone else they're wrong and it is actually the opposite.

DGRossetti · 19/01/2022 14:10

All of this is moot anyway. If people want our electoral system to work differently to how it does, then it's up to them to find the party that is prepared to make those changes and get them voted on in Parliament.

And both Labour and the Tories have no interest in electoral reform whatsoever. Which is why they told you to vote against in the referendum we had.

Unescorted · 19/01/2022 14:11

@TameDucksAtChatsworth

A person stands for a party unless they are independent.

That's how they count the votes- by party.

Most people say they voted, Labour etc, they don't say they voted for Joe Knob.

If you were a vegan and had a subscription to a Vegan grocery box and they then said they were changing to Carnivores R us, you wouldn't want to keep your subscription because they have totally changed.

Why should the electorate be stuck with someone representing a party they didn't vote for on the whim of one person.

It is bloody deceptive to change hue when you were elected as a member of a party. An honorable person would trigger a by-election.

You vote for the candidate presumably because you agree with their position on policy. Some will align themselves with a party and its manifesto. The preferred candidate is "selected" as the "candidate" by the local members of the party on the basis of how well that person represents their views. Not on how well that person is going to stick to the national manifesto.
AwaitingSueGraysInvestigation · 19/01/2022 14:12

To answer the OP's question -- I think 'crossing the floor' is one of those bits of Westminster mummery that is all hat and no cattle, for the most part. It gets Westminster insiders very sweaty and it's good theatre but does it mean much to the average person on the street, really?

In practice, most MPs who cross don't last long anyway. Remember the remain-supporting MPs who bumped to Change UK? They all lost their seats in 2019.

And constituents have a right of recall if enough of them don't like it -- the Recall of MPs Act allows for this.

It comes down to whether enough people who voted Conservative in that constituency would be so incensed that their MP is now on the Labour benches that they would reconsider their vote.

TameDucksAtChatsworth · 19/01/2022 14:15

@KiloWhat

You vote for the candidate. As long as they carry on with what they promised they'd do for the local area I don't see the problem.
That is only truly the case if they are independent.

Subtleties of the ballot box aside, most voters say the party they voted for. We all know that. The votes on Election Night are counted by party.

They aren't standing for the parish council "working for the local area". They might do this but first and foremost, they align themselves with a party and the majority vote for the party they prefer.

Many people would not vote for a Tory candidate, no matter who the candidate was and no matter what they said they would do for the local area. They would not cast a vote for the Tory party.

Many people wouldn't vote Labour for the same reasons.

We all know this is the reality and that's why it is wrong to turncoat without giving the electorate a chance to speak.

girlmom21 · 19/01/2022 14:20

If you were a vegan and had a subscription to a Vegan grocery box and they then said they were changing to Carnivores R us, you wouldn't want to keep your subscription because they have totally changed.

But surely in this instance they'll have changed their names but now would be a company claiming to be carnivores but still supplying vegan meat - if the individuals views and intentions haven't changed

DGRossetti · 19/01/2022 14:21

We all know this is the reality and that's why it is wrong to turncoat without giving the electorate a chance to speak.

So - change it.

SirSamuelVimes · 19/01/2022 14:21

Well, you kind of vote for both, don't you?

You may be happy with the individual and happy with the party.
Or happy with the party but unhappy with the individual.
Or happy with the individual but unhappy with the party.
Or you may know nothing about the individual but vote for the party because that's what you've always done, or that's what your family / community / local area have always done. (Hence the 'safe seat' phenomenon.)

I do agree that crossing the floor should have some kind of consequence though. An MP wh was elected more on the grounds of the party they stood for (rather than themselves as an individual politician) would be in a sense betraying their constituents by defecting to another party.

Triggering a by election doesn't seem a massively disproportionate response. But it would out MPs off crossing the floor if they knew they might be out of a job the next month, and it might put parties off of accepting defectors if they know it's going to cost them money in running an election campaign and they may not end up with an additional seat at the end of it.

I'm not sure that it would be a good thing to discourage the practice. It tends to happen rarely and under fairly extreme circumstances; it is the strongest form of protest an MP can make to their party.

TameDucksAtChatsworth · 19/01/2022 14:22

What would happen if Boris Johnson-or any other Prime Minister- said they were "crossing the floor". So, they were still PM-still in power- but were now pushing through policies of the opposition.

Would that be reasonable?

Of course not and nor is it reasonable for any MP to do this.

MarshaBradyo · 19/01/2022 14:23

@Hont1986

You do elect the individual. The party they are a member of is prominently featured, but you elect the individual.
Yanbu op

I’m sure if Labour defected to Cons people would be unhappy about it

Both name and party are on the ballot

MarshaBradyo · 19/01/2022 14:23

Didn’t mean to quote there