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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want my friend as a colleague?

58 replies

TupperwareThief · 19/01/2022 11:38

To put this question into context a bit, i’ll tell you my recent career history. At the beginning of 2019 I was in a job I loved, but due to brexit affecting the company’s funding, my contract was not renewed. I took a maternity cover position in another department who organise large events as a temporary solution: however, when COVID19 struck it was left to me, someone with zero experience, to move the events online in a short space of time with no training, experience or support, which was so stressful I was in tears daily. By the time the person I was covering came back, I was totally burned out. I then took what I thought would be a good permanent role; however, it turned out to be completely misadvertised (it was not remote working as advertised, it involved working on a construction site, and my boss was, to put it plainly, an asshole - who, amongst other things, put my physical safety at risk numerous times - leading me to quit after only 6 months, which is something i’ve never done before).

But then, something amazing happened. Someone sent me an advert for the job of my dreams saying ‘you’d be perfect for this’. And I got the job! It was working at a university close to my friends and partner and my boss is totally supportive and a good leader. I’ve worked there since June 2021.

We are a small team of 3 core members: as well as my boss, I have a colleague who does all the admin and finance side of things - we’ll call her Tracy. Tracy hates her job, and working in the university sector, and doesn’t care who knows it. She’s deeply unprofessional and lazy (spends a lot of her day watching streaming tv in the office) and I actually have strong suspicions she is sleeping with a student. She walked out of a staff meeting in December, handed in her 3 months’ notice along with a sick note, and has been on rolling sick ever since. I do not think she will come back. I’m sort of relieved to see the back of her, although it has meant I have to cover both our full time jobs, which is a stress i could do without (especially because i have no training in admin/finance).

Of course, this means that Tracy’s job will soon be advertised. Tracy’s job pays surprisingly well, far more than the average for a junior admin role, despite not requiring many prerequisites (no degree or special certifications etc). The reason for this is we need a specific type of very energetic, organised and outgoing person in the role as it involves making connections with business partners etc.

I told a friend, we’ll call her Kelly, about all of this. Kelly suddenly springs up and says ‘I’d be interested in applying to that - you’ll help me get the job, right?’

I know this sounds horrible, but I really don’t want Kelly in this job. She is not the right person for it and after all of the stress and drama in my worklife in the last few years, I just want a safe, stable pair of hands that I can rely on. I know full well the only thing that Kelly cares about in this job is the good salary: when I saw her at the weekend and tried to explain to her a little bit about an important part of the job i’m doing this week (this would be her role if she got the job), she literally walked off in the middle of me speaking. Kelly has never had a job for very long because she’s… kinda good at alienating people. She once worked for her own brother but that ended with them not on speaking terms because she expected him to make more allowances at work for her since she’s family, and she felt extremely betrayed when he didn’t. She can be very funny as a friend, but as a colleague, I honestly believe she’d be a nightmare. She’s also a registered (mature) student at the university so I have no idea how that would even work, since it’s a full time role and a full time degree. She’s in the final year so I also doubt she’d want to stay in the role after graduation.

But I can’t stop her applying can I? And if she gets through to interview, can I even legally blacklist her to the panel? I know she does interview really well, as she has the gift of the gab, so I’m worried. I really wish i’d just kept my mouth shut about the whole thing 😩

Any advice is welcome!

OP posts:
Cofifeefee · 19/01/2022 11:41

Do you have any role in deciding who gets the job?

If not, there is nothing you can do.

ApolloandDaphne · 19/01/2022 11:43

You can't stop her from applying but you don't need to do anything at all in terms of trying to help her secure the job. To be honest you don't even know if the person doing the job is going to leave it or not so at the moment this is all moot. There is no job for her to apply for. Stop worrying about something that possibly will never happen.

NiceShrubbery · 19/01/2022 11:43

If it comes up again "It's out of my hands, Kelly. Not my decision" and change subject immediately.

RiverSkater · 19/01/2022 11:45

We'll she's a full time student so how can she apply for a full time job?

You can't stop her but there will be lots of qualified people with relevant experience applying too. You just got to let this one take its course and say nothing if you value your friendship.

As for helping her, you have to be impartial and have to remain professional. But you can signpost her to information which would be readily available online about the university etc.

ThePants999 · 19/01/2022 11:50

I'm not sure what you mean by "can I even legally blacklist her to the panel". You presumably don't have any control over a "blacklist". You absolutely can talk to the panel about the very valid concerns you have about her fit for the role, and they can do as they see fit with that information. That's perfectly legal, perfectly reasonable to do as an employee vested in the business' success, and she need never know.

Ipadflowers · 19/01/2022 11:54

This is hard to understand, on one hand you write like you’re a colleague at the same level to such an extent you even need to do the job, and on the other you write like you’re totally in charge, decide on who gets interviewed, decide who you wish in the role and can blacklist applicatants.

It can’t be both?

phishy · 19/01/2022 11:57

YANBU, you can't stop her applying but tell the hiring manager she is not a good fit.

Blueberryflavour · 19/01/2022 12:10

It can work both ways in terms of working with friends. I used to work in a role where we employed a lot of young people and if they recommended a friend we would offer them an interview as people don’t tend to recommend friends who will reflect badly on them ( not that we would have blamed the young person recommending). I have also worked in a small team with two “friends” who had a massive falling out and took their bad feeling into work as well, it was a nightmare. So what ever you do don’t recommend her if asked ( probably GDPR prevents them asking now) and if you are asked don’t say anything negative about her as a person focus on her skills and availability meeting / not meeting the job requirements.

CounsellorTroi · 19/01/2022 12:17

You can’t stop her applying, and if you are involved in the sift it would be highly unprofessional to try to block her getting an interview if on paper she fits all the criteria.

girlmom21 · 19/01/2022 12:20

Don't get involved. At all. Tell her you can't impact the interviewers decision making.

If it's a basic admin level job with a good salary lots of people will apply with relevant experience etc.

TupperwareThief · 19/01/2022 12:36

Hi just to clarify some points i guess I didn’t write very well:

  1. @ApolloandDaphne Tracy is leaving, she has handed in her notice, so it’s not a moot point. Her job will be advertised in the next week or so.
  1. I’m not on the sift panel or in control of hiring. I am in a senior position to Tracy’s role, but I would not be her line manager, and it’s unlikely i’d be on the interview panel which would most likely be my boss, the head of overall admin for the college, and the head of academic admin for the department. However, I could potentially influence these people by expressing my concerns: my question is, is it legal/ethical/just generally a good idea to do so?

I kinda suspect the ones who say i’m just going to have to ride it out and hope for the best are probably right. I don’t know if anything else would be considered unfair interference with the process?

OP posts:
phishy · 19/01/2022 12:40

I don't think there's any harm in making your concerns clear, in an honest way.

It does work like that in my industry.

VainAbigail · 19/01/2022 12:46

I got my best friend a job at the company I work for.

We are no longer friends Xmas Sad

TellMeItsPossible · 19/01/2022 12:47

If you know her as an applicant, you can't pretend to not know her if she comes in for interview - surely the hiring panel would chat with you even casually? Be honest with your concerns if they do.

Teensbeingteens · 19/01/2022 12:57

YANBU. Similar happened at my job where one of my friends saw a job advertised and begged me to help her get the job. Sadly she was a PITA, alienated everyone in the office, and dragged me into her pathetic arguments with people. Never again will I work with one on my 'friends'!!

TupperwareThief · 19/01/2022 13:05

I’m kinda glad (not sure that’s the right word?!) this has happened to others and so I know my fears are valid. I could just see it backfiring so spectacularly, my work is important to me and the last thing I want is to be dragged down yet again out of toxic loyalty when I know they wouldn’t do the same for me.

OP posts:
MzHz · 19/01/2022 13:06

Wait and see if she applies, if she gets an interview etc, it may be that she doesn’t make it past the sift, and I’m sure she’ll tell you.

Then I would definitely speak to my boss if I were you, explain that you don’t want to be unethical etc etc but that you know her personally and don’t feel it would be a good fit

Warblerinwinter · 19/01/2022 13:15

@TellMeItsPossible

If you know her as an applicant, you can't pretend to not know her if she comes in for interview - surely the hiring panel would chat with you even casually? Be honest with your concerns if they do.
Yes, I would expect this. If I knew I was interviewing someone that worked at same place as one of our other employees, or the employee knew them I would go and talk to them about that applicant. Even if person wasn’t in my team. When recruiting we know interviews are less than perfect for assessing expel skills and talents- speaking to someone who knows them or has worked with them is like gold dust. I don’t think it is against any law - you wouldn’t think twice to recommend her if asked if she was really good and you felt her to be a perfect fit. But, be factual and specific….don’t explain in wish washy terms and general asked comments. Give 3-4 examples of a situation, what she did, what the outcome was and what happened as a consequence. Eg what specifically happened when she alienated people. Doesn’t matter if not work related and more social- but be specific and professional. You can say I love her as a friend but I felt it was best if I gave you some information on her skills and attitude towards work as I am not sure she will be a good fit.
PrincessPaws · 19/01/2022 13:15

@TupperwareThief

Hi just to clarify some points i guess I didn’t write very well:
  1. *@ApolloandDaphne* Tracy is leaving, she has handed in her notice, so it’s not a moot point. Her job will be advertised in the next week or so.
  1. I’m not on the sift panel or in control of hiring. I am in a senior position to Tracy’s role, but I would not be her line manager, and it’s unlikely i’d be on the interview panel which would most likely be my boss, the head of overall admin for the college, and the head of academic admin for the department. However, I could potentially influence these people by expressing my concerns: my question is, is it legal/ethical/just generally a good idea to do so?

I kinda suspect the ones who say i’m just going to have to ride it out and hope for the best are probably right. I don’t know if anything else would be considered unfair interference with the process?

You should talk to your boss, Kelly will almost certainly use her connection to you in the interview (assuming she gets that far) and will likely imply that you encouraged her to apply because you think she'd do an amazing job.

You don't need to say too much, just that you wouldn't personally recommend her as you wouldn't consider her a good fit for the role

Masdintle · 19/01/2022 13:16

Is she, or are you, one of those people who think anybody can do admin, you don't need any skills? A good, professionally trained and experienced administrator can make a massive difference to the running of a department. Is she a professional administrator?

I had to manage someone who had been appointed to the role of senior administrator because she had a degree, although her degree was in performing arts. She knew nothing about admin and didn't even know about filing things in alphabetical order or using the shared drives and not just her desktop for saving things

NewMessageFrom · 19/01/2022 13:33

@ApolloandDaphne

You can't stop her from applying but you don't need to do anything at all in terms of trying to help her secure the job. To be honest you don't even know if the person doing the job is going to leave it or not so at the moment this is all moot. There is no job for her to apply for. Stop worrying about something that possibly will never happen.
She walked out of a staff meeting in December, handed in her 3 months’ notice along with a sick note, and has been on rolling sick ever since.

I would speak with the hiring manager with feedback about doubts doing the role personally

Greenbather · 19/01/2022 13:37

Not sure how you can describe Kelly as a friend.

You sound very self-important and over involved so perhaps you will be consulted? If not I would butt out.

Butchyrestingface · 19/01/2022 13:41

And if she gets through to interview, can I even legally blacklist her to the panel?

Hmm
EarringsandLipstick · 19/01/2022 13:46

I could potentially influence these people by expressing my concerns: my question is, is it legal/ethical/just generally a good idea to do so?

No. You couldn't. Unless you are all entirely unprofessional.

I have been in situations several times where someone unsuitable for a role has applied. If it's nothing to do with me (if I'm not involved in the interview proceeds), I can & do, do nothing.

I keep my thoughts to myself. If a member of a panel asked for my thoughts and took them into consideration, they'd be wrong & unprofessional.

You sound quite unpleasant. If Kelly applies for the job & is successful, she will have performed well at interview. If she subsequently fails to perform in the role, necessary steps will be taken.

You may not think she is a good candidate. You don't know it tho. If what you say ie f/t student is true, that will become apparent & she won't get the role.

Focus on your own job. Don't discuss the role with Kelly - that's fine. Otherwise, nothing.

TupperwareThief · 19/01/2022 17:49

@EarringsandLipstick I’m really not unpleasant at all. I’m actually really supportive, i work bloody hard, and i’m well-liked amongst my colleagues. But i’m also really exhausted, and the thought of yet another work drama fills my soul with dread. You really don’t realise how hard my life has been the last few years. I’m not a bad person for wanting peace and colleagues who actually give 2 poos about the job.

I’d like to have your optimism, but I know that interviewing well doesn’t mean a person will do the job well. It just doesn’t. And no, steps won’t necessarily be taken if someone does a bad job - it was an open secret my colleagues were tired of Tracy and her substandard performance, but nobody did anything because everyone’s scared to get into trouble.

As it happens, I probably won’t say anything. As others have pointed out, it is likely the job will be quite competitive and someone else will rise to the top. I just hope Kelly doesn’t blame me for not ‘pushing’ more for her.

OP posts: