To not want my friend as a colleague?

[TupperwareThief]

To put this question into context a bit, i’ll tell you my recent career history. At the beginning of 2019 I was in a job I loved, but due to brexit affecting the company’s funding, my contract was not renewed. I took a maternity cover position in another department who organise large events as a temporary solution: however, when COVID19 struck it was left to me, someone with zero experience, to move the events online in a short space of time with no training, experience or support, which was so stressful I was in tears daily. By the time the person I was covering came back, I was totally burned out. I then took what I thought would be a good permanent role; however, it turned out to be completely misadvertised (it was not remote working as advertised, it involved working on a construction site, and my boss was, to put it plainly, an asshole - who, amongst other things, put my physical safety at risk numerous times - leading me to quit after only 6 months, which is something i’ve never done before).

But then, something amazing happened. Someone sent me an advert for the job of my dreams saying ‘you’d be perfect for this’. And I got the job! It was working at a university close to my friends and partner and my boss is totally supportive and a good leader. I’ve worked there since June 2021.

We are a small team of 3 core members: as well as my boss, I have a colleague who does all the admin and finance side of things - we’ll call her Tracy. Tracy hates her job, and working in the university sector, and doesn’t care who knows it. She’s deeply unprofessional and lazy (spends a lot of her day watching streaming tv in the office) and I actually have strong suspicions she is sleeping with a student. She walked out of a staff meeting in December, handed in her 3 months’ notice along with a sick note, and has been on rolling sick ever since. I do not think she will come back. I’m sort of relieved to see the back of her, although it has meant I have to cover both our full time jobs, which is a stress i could do without (especially because i have no training in admin/finance).

Of course, this means that Tracy’s job will soon be advertised. Tracy’s job pays surprisingly well, far more than the average for a junior admin role, despite not requiring many prerequisites (no degree or special certifications etc). The reason for this is we need a specific type of very energetic, organised and outgoing person in the role as it involves making connections with business partners etc.

I told a friend, we’ll call her Kelly, about all of this. Kelly suddenly springs up and says ‘I’d be interested in applying to that - you’ll help me get the job, right?’

I know this sounds horrible, but I really don’t want Kelly in this job. She is not the right person for it and after all of the stress and drama in my worklife in the last few years, I just want a safe, stable pair of hands that I can rely on. I know full well the only thing that Kelly cares about in this job is the good salary: when I saw her at the weekend and tried to explain to her a little bit about an important part of the job i’m doing this week (this would be her role if she got the job), she literally walked off in the middle of me speaking. Kelly has never had a job for very long because she’s… kinda good at alienating people. She once worked for her own brother but that ended with them not on speaking terms because she expected him to make more allowances at work for her since she’s family, and she felt extremely betrayed when he didn’t. She can be very funny as a friend, but as a colleague, I honestly believe she’d be a nightmare. She’s also a registered (mature) student at the university so I have no idea how that would even work, since it’s a full time role and a full time degree. She’s in the final year so I also doubt she’d want to stay in the role after graduation.

But I can’t stop her applying can I? And if she gets through to interview, can I even legally blacklist her to the panel? I know she does interview really well, as she has the gift of the gab, so I’m worried. I really wish i’d just kept my mouth shut about the whole thing 😩

Any advice is welcome!

@NiceShrubbery

If it comes up again "It's out of my hands, Kelly. Not my decision" and change subject immediately.

This.

And if you don’t feel she’s right for the role, tell your boss that.

I have this regularly. I'm in a strong position to influence so I declare a conflict and stay out of it from the start.

There was one particular person I winced over - a pub friend of mine. They didn't get the job, and as I was clearing out recruitment files later down the line, I couldn't help but notice they'd got the lowest interview score I'd ever seen.

Trust the process and say nothing unless you're asked, is my advice.

I've been part of a similarly small team for a few years, and consider everyone on the team (boss included) to be a good friend. If I knew an applicant well and genuinely believed they'd be terrible for the job then I'd see it as a responsibility to give my boss a heads up, and they'd find it pretty weird if it later came out that I was friends with one of the candidates and hadn't mentioned it at all. Whether it made any difference to the eventual outcome would of course be out of my hands. I work in a school, so it's very different to a huge corporation with a rigid hierarchy where that sort of thing could be seen as totally unprofessional.

If she does actually apply and it's not just a passing whim, I would casually mention to your boss in a neutral way that you know one of the applicants (without saying who) when an opportunity next comes up in conversation. If they're interested in your opinion they can ask, and if not you haven't prejudiced them or made yourself look unprofessional.

Also, kind of a side point but for the people saying about universities having strict recruitment criteria they have to follow... so do schools, in theory. In practice they still make hiring judgements based on reputation, personal feeling or sometimes complete bullshit all the time, and pass it off as "we felt from the interview that you didn't have as much experience in xyz as the successful candidate". Maybe it's different in universities (they're much bigger and have proper HR departments, for one thing), but unless they're egregiously prejudiced or do something stupid like discuss their opinions of the candidates by email, how is anyone going to prove they're lying about their reasoning?

You really don’t realise how hard my life has been the last few years.

I'm sorry to hear that. However my comments were based on your posts here, which did sound unpleasant.

I could potentially influence these people by expressing my concerns: my question is, is it legal/ethical/just generally a good idea to do so?

If your workplace would allow you to influence an appointment, that's not a place I'd want to work.

You just can't.

I have had situations where people have applied for roles sometimes in my team reporting to me but I'm not always on the interview panel. (I work in a university too, as it happens).

I know these people won't be suitable. While I would never discuss it with the panel, they usually are aware of this too.

In Kelly's case they might not be aware of her. But she does have to demonstrate her competency for the role. If she does that at interview, she is entitled to the role, and your views on how it would affect you, are irrelevant.

Rightly so. You may be 100% right about Kelly. However in many places, people's views could be for invalid reasons like jealousy, or how someone performed in another role that's different.

The interview process has to have integrity & stand alone.

Finally as I said, she will hardly interview well if she has no clue of the role. She also will have to square the circle of being a student and doing a f/t job.

Focus on your own role & if it's challenging and causing difficulty for you, talk to your LM.

Just tell her it's out of your hands.

I have had 2 experiences like this and it's burned me so I would never recommend anyone again!! First one was my oldest and closest friend. She walked out of the job after a month and didn't tell me. I had to find it out from the HR leaving form I was passed 2 days later (I'm payroll).

Then one in November who has just handed her notice in.

It reflects badly on me and I'm still annoyed!

Nothing wrong with a quiet word with the hiring team in fact if you know someone you’re expected to say it.

@psychomath

Also, kind of a side point but for the people saying about universities having strict recruitment criteria they have to follow... so do schools, in theory. In practice they still make hiring judgements based on reputation, personal feeling or sometimes complete bullshit all the time, and pass it off as "we felt from the interview that you didn't have as much experience in xyz as the successful candidate". Maybe it's different in universities (they're much bigger and have proper HR departments, for one thing), but unless they're egregiously prejudiced or do something stupid like discuss their opinions of the candidates by email, how is anyone going to prove they're lying about their reasoning?

We use a scoring matrix against the essential criteria at both shortlisting and interview stage. This has to be retained for 6 months after the post has been filled so unsuccessful candidates can request feedback on their application or interview (admittedly, it happens more often after interview). There have been occasions where candidates have challenged the scoring. As an equal opportunities employer, it's not enough to be doing the right thing - we have to be seen to be doing the right thing. And there is a fair amount of training to be done on recruitment and the law, and unconscious bias to be done before anyone can be on a recruitment panel.

That said, of course it's hard to get over unconscious bias in particular. There are people that we just click with for whatever reason, though we are meant to be aware of the reasons for us clicking. Or not, as was the case with one chap who turned up late smelling strongly of drink who admitted in the interview that he'd been out the night before!