To think we should block porn as they do in France...

[jobhunter7]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10349501/Major-porn-sites-BLOCKED-France-unless-ensure-users-18.html

@catwomando

Yes you can bypass with VPN but that takes a bit more effort and at least combats the casual viewer, of which kids make up a large number I suspect. And the more countries that do this, the harder it becomes to work around.

And anyway this should, be the first in a series of measures to make porn less accessible. They didn't drastically reduce smoking overnight; it started with taking adverts off the telly, then billboards, then sporting events, then with more education, then banning smoking in pubs , the in cars, then putting horrible pictures on packets, then hiding the packets in shops. Years and years of inching forward. Let's hope the fight against porn is faster.

Children are already setting up vpn's themselves to watch football matches which are either not televised in the uk or need a sky/bt subscription.

It's literally a few seconds to set up. Children are passing eachother the information in school etc.

As for smoking, lots of children still smoke today, despite decades of steps to prohibit it, amd drinking alcohol too!

Surely a VPN would get around it straight away?

Most antivirus software comes with vpn these days and the vpn companies are major sponsers on sites like youtube, it might be a barrier to very young kids but not tweens and teens.

@user1497207191 what you fail to note re smoking is that it has drastically reduced in the last 40 years owing to these measures (from 45% in 1974 to 16% now ) Far fewer kids and adults smoke now than they used to. Restrictive measures work, but are not a panacea. We need to start now and I agree with @AdamRyan wholeheartedly.

ash.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/SmokingStatistics.pdf

Yes, porn has done untold damage to sex and relationship and how women are treated by men in general.

It encourages many men to think 'rough sex' is the norm and to see women as passive, inferior beings who enjoy being abused and it has turned sex into a commodity.

Also we have a situation where if you say that you don't like porn because of the way it depicts women, you are called a 'prude' and told that there is plenty of 'ethical' porn. Frankly I am tired of this argument too. Time to get tough on this exploitation of women (and men).

I think age-verification is needed but there is also the need for a wider discussion and regulation of porn and the damage it is causing young people especially.

I've not been to France in forever, do they still have blatant sex shops with neon signs all over the place?

I'm don't think there is a way to completely block porn, certainly not one that's within my control.

What I can do is keep on educating my boys on topics like pornography and the damage it can do. Genie's don't often go back in the bottle sadly.

By continually saying its "too hard" to block children accessing Internet porn society is basically approving porn use by children

I most definitely am not.

Which is why I am consistently recommending the best approach - proper use of device-based content blockers, supervision and education.

Not a useless bit of gesture politics. Because this measure is wrong, it does not follow that all measures are. I would rather see effort put on promoting the things that actually make a difference.

Which is why I am consistently recommending the best approach - proper use of device-based content blockers, supervision and education.
Have you tried to set up device based blocking? It's a total PITA and children constantly get round it. You are requiring a level of technological knowledge that many parents don't have.
I think its easier and more effective to block at source.

It isnt more effective

Arguably it's less effective, as it leaves parents under the false impression that something useful has been done.

And yes it requires education, of both parents and DC. Parents so they can use blockers as effectively as possible, and DC so they understand why porn (and other harmful content) is wrong.

Yes, blockers can be circumvented, which is why supervision is still needed as well.

And even if some find it a PITA to set up blockers, that doesn't alter the fact that using them will do far more than this measure to put an age verification regime onto five (yes just five) well known and easily identifiable porn sits that blockers wouid block anyhow along with hundreds of others

Monitor your router using Cisco- easy to do- that way you know if porn is being used and you also can see if someone is using VPNs and if so why ?

@AdamRyan

Which is why I am consistently recommending the best approach - proper use of device-based content blockers, supervision and education. Have you tried to set up device based blocking? It's a total PITA and children constantly get round it. You are requiring a level of technological knowledge that many parents don't have. I think its easier and more effective to block at source.

But it isn't "easier and more effective" because we can't control the internet in other countries and VPNs are free and easy to set up.

@Soubriquet

How can they put in verification that can’t be cheated by teens?

I mean technically, things like Facebook are supposed to be age rated, but younger people put in a fake birth year and voila. They can join

I'm assuming credit card verification?? We had to do this when one of my kids wanted to play with Fortnite on their switch. It was a palava so we didn't bother.

@AdamRyan

I don't understand why this debate immediately jumps to "pointless cos VPNs" We make loads of stuff illegal to indicate its harmful, knowing people will still do it...

• drugs
• underage drinking
• driving over the speedlimit
• slander (daying damaging untruths about someone)
• selling counterfeit goods
• paying under minimum wage
• health and safety laws

Off the top of my head. We do this because 1) laws indicates societal norms and 2) lots of people will comply because they are law abiding.

By continually saying its "too hard" to block children accessing Internet porn society is basically approving porn use by children.

That's before we even get onto the type of stuff these sites host - a lot of which is illegal, if you look at legal definitions, but that's ok because "freedom of speech"

You aren't comparing like with like. Illegal stuff is illegal but the equivalent would be we fit speed limiters to every car to prevent speeding. Perhaps you'd approve of that - but it would be massively expensive and we'd end up with a situation where scrotes could circumvent it.

That would be a huge step forward.

By continually saying its "too hard" to block children accessing Internet porn society is basically approving porn use by children.
No we aren't.

Illegal stuff is illegal but the equivalent would be we fit speed limiters to every car to prevent speeding. Perhaps you'd approve of that - but it would be massively expensive and we'd end up with a situation where scrotes could circumvent it.
No it wouldn't. Because you are saying age verification is easy to get round with VPN. Can't have it both ways

I don't think age verification on sites would be expensive

I mean, I still stand by my statement that by doing nothing society is basically approving of children watching porn.
We don't apply a rule of "supervision and education" to prevent children drinking. We make it illegal to sell alcohol to children or buy alcohol for children and have an age ID to buy in shops/bars.

And how wouid you prevent DC buying alcohol if you could not see them at point of sale/delivery, and you knew that age verification could be circumvented?

That's why delivery drivers have to ID those who look too young before handing over the age-restricted product - because the selling website knows that the online age ID is inadequate.

The poor message to DC is if there was one saying that parents find it a PITA to take the steps to protect them from hundreds of unsuitable websites and instead prefer just 5 from a government. Both can be circumvented, but parental use of blockers and supervision is way more effective

Age verification CAN be circumvented. That's my whole point. It can be and is, by underage drinkers, but as a society we don't just go "oh ok, we can't stop it so we'll rely on parents and make it legal for children to buy alcohol"

Anyway, you are arguing that easily accessible porn is fine. So we aren't going to agree.

Anyway, you are arguing that easily accessible porn is fine

I absolutely am not

I am arguing for the best use of the best available tools

Bravo to France!!
Honestly I think all porn should be illegal and possession/production of it should be a jailable offence, it is a cancer on our society and the way men view women

Well done France.

No it wouldn't. Because you are saying age verification is easy to get round with VPN. Can't have it both ways
I am not "having it both ways".
You aren't making any logical sense - you're making a series of illogical and invalid comparisons and then presenting anyone who disagrees with you with a series of strawman misrepresentations of what they've said.

I do agree. It eould become a "black market" type of thing but at the same time, I would hope it would put men off as being a "seedy" type purchase like it was back in the 80s and 90s.

It's something that will always be purchased and seen but the fact its so easy to see and to such an extreme, it desensitised men to extreme porn which then has a detrimental effect on real life experiences with real women.

Frankly I don't care if age verification in sites is expensive. They make tons of cash and this would be part of the cost of doing business.

And people saying age verification is easy to circumvent. Yes it can be, just as it is easy to get fake ID to buy alcohol. But we have also put laws in place that give heavy fines to those selling alcohol to underage people, or buy it on their behalf. Alcohol is now much harder to get hold of.

There needs to be a very strong will to protect our kids and not all this negativity that 'it's too hard'. Solutions need to be found. This is important stuff.

For info it appears the DM (and some other UK papers) jumped the gun and presented this French ban as a done deal, coming in on 28th Dec…it was no such thing.

gettotext.com/blocking-porn-sites-in-france-whats-next-when-nothing-has-changed/

I have no idea what the state of play is at the moment, possibly bogged down in appeal process, but I gather that at least a couple of the sites mentioned in the linked report are still pretty much open access from French locations.