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To think we should block porn as they do in France...

193 replies

jobhunter7 · 18/01/2022 10:17

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10349501/Major-porn-sites-BLOCKED-France-unless-ensure-users-18.html

OP posts:
rifling · 18/01/2022 13:11

Lots of things are harmful for some people but harmless for others, such as alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc. That's why we have rules/laws and enforcement, to CONTROL rather than eliminate.

Exactly. This is a measure to try and control, not eliminate. What's the problem?

Isaw3ships · 18/01/2022 13:25

‘ Lots of things are harmful for some people but harmless for others, such as alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc. That's why we have rules/laws and enforcement, to CONTROL rather than eliminate.’

Yes, and this is a suggestion to do exactly that, in the same way we don’t allow children to buy cigarettes. There’ll always be those who get round it and do but restrictions definitely help stop casual users.

Thirtytimesround · 18/01/2022 13:26

Lots of people say “but it’s hard to do technically.” I don’t understand that. I used to work in middle east and if you tried to access any remotely dodgy website, it got blocked and a message popped up saying “you may not access this website because it is inconsistent with our country’s values.” (I was trying to order a nose ring, apparently they didn’t like body piercing 🤷‍♀️). If they could achieve that technology 10 yrs ago I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

Also… I think it would be a very interesting social experiment to ban violent / degrading porn, but allow porn that presents the woman is happy and free and generally having a great time. In my area the teenage boys who commute 40 mins to school spend the entire bus journey watching violent porn. It must be incredibly harmful in terms of shaping what arouses them in later life.

D0lphine · 18/01/2022 13:27

@InCahootswithOrwell

Does it actually work? Or could your average teen get round the block in a couple of minutes?
It won't work. You can set up a free VPN to get around the block in minutes.
GlacindaTheTroll · 18/01/2022 13:29

Exactly. This is a measure to try and control, not eliminate. What's the problem?

That there is no proposal for any effective control.

The French initiative is as much use as a chocolate fireguard

The best controls are:
a) education
b) supervision
c) use of device based filters - not a full solution, but will do way, way more than this French proposal which is limited to 5 sites and even easier to get round

rifling · 18/01/2022 13:30

In my area the teenage boys who commute 40 mins to school spend the entire bus journey watching violent porn. It must be incredibly harmful in terms of shaping what arouses them in later life.
Eurgh. Grim.

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 18/01/2022 13:32

I really think it's down to parents to protect children, not the websites. Porn doesn't just pop up. You have to go looking for it. If you don't have parental controls or don't watch what your child is doing online, that's your fault. It's just lazy parenting. What's going to be next, you want the government to feed them for you too?

Bowwowwowoh · 18/01/2022 13:35

Yes. Porn addiction destroys marriages.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 18/01/2022 13:42

@Thirtytimesround

Lots of people say “but it’s hard to do technically.” I don’t understand that. I used to work in middle east and if you tried to access any remotely dodgy website, it got blocked and a message popped up saying “you may not access this website because it is inconsistent with our country’s values.” (I was trying to order a nose ring, apparently they didn’t like body piercing 🤷‍♀️). If they could achieve that technology 10 yrs ago I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

Also… I think it would be a very interesting social experiment to ban violent / degrading porn, but allow porn that presents the woman is happy and free and generally having a great time. In my area the teenage boys who commute 40 mins to school spend the entire bus journey watching violent porn. It must be incredibly harmful in terms of shaping what arouses them in later life.

If they could achieve that technology 10 yrs ago I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

Mainly the issue is that we don't live in a totalitarian state with a government department devoted to safeguarding our values.

Technically it's possible in countries like China and so on where the internet is censored and access is tracked.

Here where people are generally free to search for stuff like nose rings, it is very hard to implement because in a non-totalitarian state it can be easily circumvented.

cherryonthecakes · 18/01/2022 14:30

@Thirtytimesround

Lots of people say “but it’s hard to do technically.” I don’t understand that. I used to work in middle east and if you tried to access any remotely dodgy website, it got blocked and a message popped up saying “you may not access this website because it is inconsistent with our country’s values.” (I was trying to order a nose ring, apparently they didn’t like body piercing 🤷‍♀️). If they could achieve that technology 10 yrs ago I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

Also… I think it would be a very interesting social experiment to ban violent / degrading porn, but allow porn that presents the woman is happy and free and generally having a great time. In my area the teenage boys who commute 40 mins to school spend the entire bus journey watching violent porn. It must be incredibly harmful in terms of shaping what arouses them in later life.

A major problem is that over 18s can legally watch porn if they want and devices don't know how old the user is. An under 18 interested in porn will already know that it's easy to fake a birthdate to access what they want and what a VPN is.
cherryonthecakes · 18/01/2022 14:39

@Thirtytimesround
Had a quick read online and it sounds like people in the ME use VPNs to get around the blocks. Google "Middle East VPN" and there's loads of sites offering recommendations.

The figures will probably be even higher than in 2018

To think we should block porn as they do in France...
LessTime · 19/01/2022 10:51

I would support this. I think it's easy to get around but I suspect it would stop a lot of people accessing porn.

Even if it just stops the casual users that can't be a bad thing.

astorsback · 19/01/2022 10:55

Excellent news but I'm sure some will engineer a way around it.

Depressing fact: Ex used to work for a major web hosting business in the North West. He said 95% of sites hosted were porn related, the remaining 5% were normal/mainstream businesses. The owner was so rich, he bought an island. Sickening.

Muminabun · 19/01/2022 10:58

28% of people on a parenting site think that it is ok for children and anyone else to have unfettered access to watching women, children, animals and men and boys be raped and abused for entertainment and sexual gratification and for it to stay on the web for ever nice 👍 I feel comforted for the future……

astorsback · 19/01/2022 11:01

@AwaitingSueGraysInvestigation

Its because men need an ever increasing level of stimulus to get the same dopamine hit and are therefore served up more and more outrageous, unusual and violent content. It's a bit like men not being able to get turned on by seeing a real woman's legs - they're now wired to see much more graphic images for pleasure so the legs just dont register.

GlacindaTheTroll · 19/01/2022 11:01

No-one needs to 'engineer a way round it' as there are readily available ways to do that already

It won't stop 'a lot of people' as it applies to only 5 sites, and is introduction of age verification not complete barring. And even if it were, it would be very easy to get round that

Silverswirl · 19/01/2022 11:16

Yes some teens will get around this. But it’s something. Something is better than nothing which is what it currently is.
Currently, my 10 year old walking to school with a friend - If the friend felt like it and has safari on their phone and 4g, They type in porn hub and literally click a box saying I am 18 to view the most horrific porn, which now my child has looked at via the friends phone.
Peer pressure to conform is everything to young people. What’s going to be more prevalent in their minds- me last week saying ‘it’s a really bad idea to look at this’ or his ‘mate’ telling him to look at this funny video - and taunting him if he won’t?
My 10 year old and his mates don’t know how to access VPN’s. They have basic phones and a PlayStation. But currently they can still freely visit these big porn sites.

toastofthetown · 19/01/2022 11:18

@Muminabun

28% of people on a parenting site think that it is ok for children and anyone else to have unfettered access to watching women, children, animals and men and boys be raped and abused for entertainment and sexual gratification and for it to stay on the web for ever nice 👍 I feel comforted for the future……
That’s a straw man and a half! The thread is a about whether France’s age verification is a good thing. I can’t imagine anyone who voted No wants teenagers viewing violent pornography. What they are saying is this law is pointless, trivial for a teen to work around and gives parents a false sense of security for their teen’s online safety.
user1497207191 · 19/01/2022 11:40

@Muminabun

28% of people on a parenting site think that it is ok for children and anyone else to have unfettered access to watching women, children, animals and men and boys be raped and abused for entertainment and sexual gratification and for it to stay on the web for ever nice 👍 I feel comforted for the future……
No, that's not the case at all.

28% think that a half hearted "block" without enforcement that is easily and quickly avoided by a VPN is pointless.

What is needed is a proper, Worldwide clamp down, that may actually work, not a toothless measure that makes politicians look as if they're doing something when in reality they're doing beggar all!

user1497207191 · 19/01/2022 11:44

@Silverswirl

My 10 year old and his mates don’t know how to access VPN’s

They soon will when they need to access things they want to see. A very quick google explains it in a few seconds. When one works it out (or their elder sibling tells them how), it'll spread over your son's friend group like wildfire.

My son was about that age when all his friends started watching illegal streams of live premier league football matches. Within a few days, they were all doing it, my son included. All via a VPN which was free and very easy to set up.

WinterDeWinter · 19/01/2022 13:14

Even if it stopped some children stumbling upon it (quite a large percentage of first exposures iirc) it would be worth it.

It's not only about children's exposure to sex but about what they learn about men and women's roles and relative value through porn - about the fact that, from their perspective, these roles and functions are endorsed by 'the grown-ups' because we don't appear to care whether they access it or not.

Libertarians who care more about their freedom to wank (or even just the 'principle of freedom') than actual children's freedom to be children, to be safe from content which cannot be unseen, are pretty repulsive in my view.

As for the argument that this is an imperfect policy - that's bollocks. Until there is a better way, this is the only way. If you're prepared to stand by and watch a generation be damaged while you wait for a better way to present itself, you're either being dishonest about your true motivations or what we might call 'rigid in your thinking'.

MilduraS · 19/01/2022 13:45

They tried it already then suddenly dropped the plan at the last second. I guess they got too busy with Covid after that.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/culture/2019/oct/16/uk-drops-plans-for-online-pornography-age-verification-system

GlacindaTheTroll · 19/01/2022 15:19

Even if it stopped some children stumbling upon it (quite a large percentage of first exposures iirc) it would be worth it

If the parents installed a blocker on the device, it would prevent access to sites such as these. Thus measure is not required for that. The 5 sites in question are large and well known and will be covered by blockers, as will scores more.

Of course blockers have their limitations. Not all objectionable content (whether porn, violent/graphic, rexi or whatever) will be identified and blocked. That is why both education and supervision are also needed

GlacindaTheTroll · 19/01/2022 15:21

[quote MilduraS]They tried it already then suddenly dropped the plan at the last second. I guess they got too busy with Covid after that.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/culture/2019/oct/16/uk-drops-plans-for-online-pornography-age-verification-system[/quote]
I think they dropped it because they realised it was bollocks.

If parents won't use blockers, supervise their DC whenever possible, and above all educate their DC on the dangers of the Internet and the harm of porn, then those DC will be at risk and thus kind of measure will do nothing to mitigate it, and can make it worse because it offers an illusion

WinterDeWinter · 19/01/2022 18:45

I agree that there is - of course - a parental obligation. Why isn't it statutory? We have laws about car seats at one end of the spectrum, and no-one thinks that's a step too far (now). At the other end of the spectrum, I bet every single one of us would agree that social services should get involved if a parent exposed their child to other people having sex (which is against the law). Why not a statutory obligation to take reasonable measures - blockers at device-level and household level?

There's also no reason why phone companies shouldn't shoulder the responsibility for establishing new phones (without device-level blockers) are going to adults only, like supermarkets selling alcohol or cigarettes. Of course there will be shit parents who lie, but many many more will not.

What's required is a system of measures that change the culture and make it harder (though not impossible - of course) for children to slip through the net. But this is a good first step.

The trouble is that third-wave feminists have been persuaded by men that porn is empowering/a right, and those men themselves don't give a fuck about women or children, as evidenced by the fact that they consistently push away the evidence of widespread trafficking, lack of meaningful consent, and child abuse. PornHub removed something like 80% of their content because of possible child abuse. Eighty per cent. Men know this, but they don't give a fuck. There are endless excuses, but the bottom line is that if men gave a fuck whether their porn was consensual or not, whether a girl was under-age or not, the front page of PornHub wouldn't look how it looks. They don't care.

So there's no outcry for governments to respond to, and in any case the governments themselves are broadly constituted of men/intersectional feminists. It amazes me that we can look each other in the eye to be honest - it's astonishing what we've allowed to be done to our children.