Presence of evil

[beachcitygirl]

Aibu to ask if you've ever felt yourself in the presence of evil. Following on from
The intuitiion thread.

I once met a friend of my ex in a coffee shop. The man was nothing but civil & friendly. Soft spoken & was an ex police officer. My then husband was there also.
I went to the loo & spent ages as something about him made me feel afraid. I stress it was just a feeling. Zero untoward behaviour.
Many years later he was arrested & found guilty of violent rape.

Has anyone else ever sensed evil? (For want of a better word)

I don’t really see the Meghan Markle thing. Sometimes her smile looks small/done for the photo but that’s because it is. You’re not seeing family snaps of her but pictures taken by a photographer.

I do think there’s a certain mindset where if you want to dislike somebody you will. Meghan Markle could climb into a burning building and pull out six children and two puppies, saving their lives, then put out the fire with a squirty cap water bottle and the next day on mumsnet there would be a thread saying ‘did anyone see Meghan using that disposable water bottle? Hmm and apparent they care about the environment so much. Her and Harry are disgusting. If only Kate had been there, she would have put the fire out with a reusable chilli’s bottle and looked graceful and sincere in the process…’

@MedusasBadHairDay

I think you need to define what you mean by evil tbh, if you assert that it exists

a. I just did, and b. the dictionary does that for you.

I didn’t say “evil exists” I said psychopathic acts and people exists.

My point is that everyone in this discussion or not needs to define their terms.

Generally in secular society evil is used to define acts that are so profoundly wrong, harmful, brutal, inhumane, and on such a scale that ‘bad’ is inadequate.

@Kanaloa

I suppose evil really means something deeply wicked/immoral, however it is generally characterised by an association with the religious or supernatural, or an idea about the inherent ‘badness’ present in someone.

That’s why I don’t really agree with it as a concept. To me it’s the same as the word ‘monster’ when used about someone who has murdered someone, and is mainly used to ‘other’ people who have committed horrific crimes rather than accepting that it’s likely to be in some way a societal issue rather than that some people are inherently evil. It sort of removes blame or responsibility for the crime in my opinion.

You make very good points here@Kanoloa

I agree that 'evil' is used as an 'othering' term when we must do work on why some in society feel so othered that they feel they can / must enact awful actions. It is easy, and unhelpful to point and shout 'evil'.
The worst example of that I can think of is the media treatment of Thompson & Venables, the two boys who killed James Bulger in 1993. It was a dreadful crime, which rightly 'shocked the nation'. But the 'othering' of the two damaged boys who had committed the crime was also disturbing (they were kids, tried like adults). I remember my Psychology professor at Uni talking about that element of it quite a bit & how 'Society' needed to stop with the 'evil' labels & understand & act on the complex issues involved. Still a toddler lost his life in a way which I imagine many would call evil.

I guess I am using the word as a heading. The 2 people I mentioned had a deeply scary 'vibe' about them. I later read 'The Gift of Fear' and I think it is important to trust your gut about a person. You may later find they did something awful or not, but it is important to keep safe.

Strange 'vibes' about a place are a bit more odd. I once bought a house which had come up for sale due to a recent murder suicide (and I didn't know until I bought it, or I wouldn't have done as I am a bit of a wuss). It was the nicest house, no 'atmosphere' at all. The house I am in now, though is a different matter: uneasy at best.

@Kanaloa

I don’t really see the Meghan Markle thing. Sometimes her smile looks small/done for the photo but that’s because it is. You’re not seeing family snaps of her but pictures taken by a photographer.

I do think there’s a certain mindset where if you want to dislike somebody you will. Meghan Markle could climb into a burning building and pull out six children and two puppies, saving their lives, then put out the fire with a squirty cap water bottle and the next day on mumsnet there would be a thread saying ‘did anyone see Meghan using that disposable water bottle? Hmm and apparent they care about the environment so much. Her and Harry are disgusting. If only Kate had been there, she would have put the fire out with a reusable chilli’s bottle and looked graceful and sincere in the process…’

Yeah- this.

Amazing that someone actually managed to turn this thread (about the presence of fucking evil) to get their daily Megan dig in. says a lot.

Also a teacher. I once had a class who were incredibly difficult- because they were utterly silent. You'd get no response from them. We jumped around like fools trying to get them to react, but they just sat there stony faced.

Then, one day, one of the girls was off. It was an entirely different class- bubbly, fun, focussed and chatty. We realised then they were so intimidated by the one student they wouldn't speak.

It was really strange. We tracked it for two years, and almost all the teachers of that yeargroup got involved- but it was really hard, because she never DID anything. No reports of bullying or anything.

In Year 11 two students were convicted of GBH against a third (trying to be vague here- but a very serious crime and injury). This student was present, but did nothing. Luckily the law had changed, so she was convicted of having got others to attempt murder for her. She served more years than them.....

......but not very many as she was a child. We (her ex-teachers) are confident she will get others to commit more serious crimes for her in the future.

I think sometimes what we perceive as intuitively feeling a bad vibe is just us subconsciously reading non verbal cues.
Some people, specially women (due to socialisation) I think are good at reading non verbal cues, even though they aren't consciously doing it.
So that psychopath might be utterly charming, but they cant keep up the charming façade 100% of the time and you pick up on the non verbal stuff not matching what is being said, it jars and makes you feel uncomfortable and uneasy. Could be lack of eye contact or fake smiles or body positioning, but somethings just feels 'off'

@PeopleBakwas

There is no such thing as an evil presence. There is no devil or saint. We are the devil or the Saint or in between.

If you are in touch with your own instinct and not ruined it with alcohol, drugs and junk food, then it's easy to detect a good or bad person, good or bad intentions, as everyone has the same capabilities and it's our nurturing that allows our good conscience to stay away from the evil a human is capable of.

A human is never bad, a baby isn't born bad. It's the nurturing and the society that is evil.

Plus, all murderers are mentally ill, this reason should never be allowed to escape justice.
(Only self defence murders should be considered)

I'd better lay off the wine and takeaways then make the wronguns easier to spot.

A couple of things I have bought, and binned that day or the next when I got home.
They just t didnt "seem right".

There are some really good podcasts on BBC Sounds app. Search for 'Uncanny'. They are true stories.

I listened to the first 3 last night and they gave me the proper shivers.

I always walk home across a grassy area. Its near a main road, has houses nearby but is surrounded by trees and bushes. Walking across one day, two guys were walking towards me. I instantly had a bad feeling. I stopped where I was and pretended to phone my husband up. With that, they separated and walked either side of the path as they approached me. I heard one say he would 'smash me' just as I veered off the path and made a quick walk across the grass to get away. I still can't explain the feeling!

17:29hangrylady

Alcohol and takeaways - you probably have a lot more to worry about than just your intuition

I was in a pub in a village called Forth in Scotland.. I told my BF at the time I needed the toilet and he showed me were to go. It was down a little corridor at the end. I started walking down, and then returned to my BF without getting to the toilet. I had the most awful feeling go through me. He told me I was being silly and waited at the end of the corridor while I ran through. Once in the toilet it was so cold and the feeling didn't subside until I was back out. That pub is 100s of years old. I didn't go back

Over 15 years ago I had a business meeting in London and stayed in some serviced apartments at Dolphin House, part of the giant Dolphin Square complex. I picked it simply because I was familiar with the Pimlico area (used to live in London) but without any inkling of its history.

The apartment itself was nice but the entire building felt empty for its size. There was an "arcade" of small shops in the back but most of the stores were closed giving it an eerie liminal space feeling. One morning the fire alarm went off at 6am. I wasn't sure what to do since it wasn't a hotel with a lobby and people working there, but I just grabbed my laptop & valuables and went downstairs into the courtyard. The inner area was entirely deserted and I didn't see a single person despite the fire alarm blaring away. What struck me most was an overwhelming sense of creepiness and sadness. It wasn't so much "scary" but more oppressive and disturbing. The alarm stopped and I went back to my room but that eerie feeling in the courtyard stayed with me for a long time. I made a note in my mind to never stay there again.

It was only years after that trip that I read in the papers there was a child trafficking ring operating out of Dolphin Square. I was shocked because I usually don't believe in "woo" type things but I experienced the strangest feeling at the location without knowing anything about its history. And as a disclaimer, I've lived in and travel to London frequently so it wasn't a one-off experience due to the architecture/atmosphere of a new country. I usually stay at serviced apartments in big blocks and none of the other places had the same disturbing vibe as Dolphin Square.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry - if you mean me why don’t you quote me?

I don’t actually dislike Meghan and someone else brought her name up, not me, so don’t pin that on me.

I was on the tube and a bloke got on and I felt uncomfortable, he changed lines when I did and got in the same carriage as me, still I got uncomfortable feeling so at the next station I changed carriages so did he. It was now obviously following me. When I got out of the station so did he, I ran up the stairs and luckily the lights were with me . A bus pulled up alongside me an asked if I was Ok as someone was running after me. I said know and he told me I get on . He dropped me off at the house I was staying in and he waited until I got in the house. The next few months there were reports of rapes in the area and the description was identical to the man who was following me.

I still mentally thank that caring bus driver.

But... I wasn’t having a dig at Megan! I was giving an example of people being unfair based on an unconscious bias/biases. I only picked on Megan Markle because she does seem to attract the very vague “there’s something about her I don’t like” comments, particularly on Mymsnet. I’ve no feeling (or much interest!) either way.

There are people in the public eye who I irrationally warm to, and others I’d just not “like”. I’ve no reason for it at all, but clearly there’s some past experience that means their traits makes me feel I like them.

I do think there are times when we 100% do subconsciously become aware that someone is weighing up wether we’d be a good future victim for them.

if you mean me why don’t you quote me?

I did. I directly responded to your post.

so don’t pin that on me.

I just pinned your comments about her on you. Hth.

She attracts those very vague ‘something I don’t like about her’ comments because ‘I worship the royal family like there’s something special about them and the idea of an American - a mixed race American ACTRESS - being jumped up enough to think she’s good enough to consort with them disgusts me’ would probably get deleted.

Because realistically her ‘insincere smile’ is just a normal smile. It’s no less sincere than Kate’s or William’s or Meryl Streep’s.

@Kanaloa

I don’t really see the Meghan Markle thing. Sometimes her smile looks small/done for the photo but that’s because it is. You’re not seeing family snaps of her but pictures taken by a photographer.

I do think there’s a certain mindset where if you want to dislike somebody you will. Meghan Markle could climb into a burning building and pull out six children and two puppies, saving their lives, then put out the fire with a squirty cap water bottle and the next day on mumsnet there would be a thread saying ‘did anyone see Meghan using that disposable water bottle? Hmm and apparent they care about the environment so much. Her and Harry are disgusting. If only Kate had been there, she would have put the fire out with a reusable chilli’s bottle and looked graceful and sincere in the process…’

@Kanaloa - my DB is a photographer admittedly not a paparazzi one so he knows exactly how you photograph someone to get their best smile or look.

I don’t doubt that Meghan does beget a certain mindset of people who’d hate her whatever she did but she really hasn’t helped her cause with unwise interviews/photo shoots, back in the day however Kate also attracted criticism for not being the right class, not having a proper job. But she’s worked hard not to antagonise “The Firm” and therefore any members of the public who see her now in photos can’t criticise her as she toes the line.

This is illogical. Most of us meet people we find creepy or uncomfortable to be with from time to time. It's not uncommon. You probably wouldn't have thought of this man again had you not discovered he was a rapist.

Who knows how many other people you've met who've been undiscovered serial killers, rapists, people who look at images of child abuse online, people who've smothered their elderly relatives or tortured cats or whatever? The statistics on rape and child abuse indicate that there are lots of 'evil' people around. Probably most of us at one time or another have come into contact with someone who's done dreadful things. Peter Sutcliffe seems to have gone unsuspected for years. Ditto cheery, chaotic Fred and Rosemary West.

What have unwise interviews got to do with her having an ‘insincere smile?’

And honestly if you want to start picking apart people involved with the royal family who have made unwise decisions I’d maybe say start at the top and work down.

@Kanaloa

What have unwise interviews got to do with her having an ‘insincere smile?’

And honestly if you want to start picking apart people involved with the royal family who have made unwise decisions I’d maybe say start at the top and work down.

@Kanaloa - I’m going to stop replying to this thread as it’s highjacking the original topic.

Have a lovely evening.