To think some people are ‘enjoying’ the pandemic

[Flynnqwer]

I’ve noticed an attitude amongst some people where they’re nothing short of praying for a new, more lethal, variant.

I’ve noticed it amongst people I work with and people I do a hobby with. Any discussion about going back to our workplace (we can work from home but not easily or particularly effectively) once the Government ends the restrictions on waiting from home, or back to our hobby in real life instead of on Zoom (the hobby is controlled by a central board who are following the WFH advice until it is lifted) are met with cries of ‘No! We can’t do that! It’s dangerous!’ and it anyone points out that, thankfully, it looks like the vaccination programme is working and Omicron is less severe, they come back with ‘but what if there’s a more lethal strain that appears and kills millions?’

My workplace has one element which has legally got to be done in person. I have had emails today from managers begging us to cancel said work thing and do it online. We cannot do it on line lawfully (it’s along the lines of witnessing signatures). We have told them no, we must go into the building for an hour to fulfil this function. They are saying that that is breaking the working from home directive, that it’s unsafe, and what if a deadly variant is discovered? Then we’d have to find a way around the law.

AIBU that some people are actively hoping that the situation worsens and we are locked back down? Why would anyone want this to happen?

@Soopermum1

I admit, i loved socially distant queuing. I hate crowds. I still look nostalgically at the worn stickers on shop floors

That's just weird!

It's a free market. You could look for remote or hybrid or facetime tribes to suit. I'd prefer employers give choice than treat employees like naughty schoolchildren.

I don't love the pandemic, restrictions and fear. But I love working from home and never even considered that it would be an option for me. But it works better for a lot of my clients, and it much more pleasant for me, and I think I am a lot more effective - it anything I have done more because I am not wasting time driving around to meetings.

But the thing is while I'm absolutely sympathetic to people who find themselves in this situation we shouldn't be perpetuating it by telling people its normal and OK. It's really not.

Agreed.

[quote BrightYellowDaffodil]@thepeopleversuswork, that's a really good post.

I've absolutely noticed more insularity, more polarisation over the last few years. To me, it started with Brexit (although I'm sure the seeds were sown before that) and continued into general politics, other issues like gender, and then on into every day life.

I've seen those around me - rational, intelligent people whom I've known for years, mostly fairly liberal Guardian-reading types (for thus is my general social circle ) - suddenly start down the road of anyone who has a different opinion to them being 'a monster', 'Gammon', 'literally evil'. There almost seems to be a 'You're with me or you're against me' mentality which means if your views don't exactly align, you're out. There is no tolerance of a different view or even someone who can see both sides of an argument.

Covid has given that a shot of steroids. We all shut ourselves away, whether voluntarily or just because we weren't allowed to see colleagues/socialise and not only did it make everyone's worlds smaller but it seemed to make some people even less tolerant. I've lost friends because we had different views about the pandemic - not that anyone's been a denier but a close friend didn't seem to be able to bear anyone trying to have any semblance of a normal life even within the rules, or criticising the restrictions. I have no idea why, she virtually cut me off months ago.

I suspect it's fear that underpins it the intolerance but - obvious Covid issues aside - I just don't understand why.[/quote]
All the research supports what you are saying - years before covid people were retreating from each other and society. People spend more time at home, social clubs and organized activities for adults have become less common, especially ones that are mainly neighbourhood or geographically located. That's been a trajectory since the 60s.

The last five years or so I've started to notice weird things like people being upset that someone came to their door unexpectedly, or posting on neighbourhood FB groups about someone walking around the neighbourhood. When I was growing up, friends and family used to sometimes drop over unexpectedly - that is gone in most communities, seen as an imposition.

I do think being able to withdraw from the physical community is an element. C.S. Lewis writes in a few places about the idea of people choosing churches that fit their vies (high church, say) rather than the local church. He says that no, it's important to end up side by side with the people who live around you, all as equals in a sense, even people with very different ideas. Because that is what keeps us seeing those people as fellow humans.

I think we've done a similar thing in the secular realm. People no longer have to interact much with the people around them, and that makes it easy to despise them.

It's also the case maybe that workplaces impose in inappropriate ways.

We did training in my work recently directed toward anti-bias. The underlying messaging wasn't about any actual issue in our workplace - that wasn't even mentioned. Nor was it how we could create better outcomes at work, or even what policies our employer wanted us to follow.

It was about what we should think.

I know there were any number of people whose unsaid thought was, fuck off, that is something an employer has no moral or intellectual standing to tell me as an employee.

@SantaClawsServiette

The last five years or so I've started to notice weird things like people being upset that someone came to their door unexpectedly, or posting on neighbourhood FB groups about someone walking around the neighbourhood. When I was growing up, friends and family used to sometimes drop over unexpectedly - that is gone in most communities, seen as an imposition.

Absolutely. It's everywhere on here. Someone posted that they considered it an imposition for someone within their own company to call them on the telephone without sending an email or a text first. People going to huge lengths to avoid having to chat to people outside of their household. It's really not normal.

And I think this point about having some sense of solidarity with fellow humans is being lost and its really sad as the ability to see others' perspectives is what helps create the social fabric.

The last five years or so I've started to notice weird things like people being upset that someone came to their door unexpectedly, or posting on neighbourhood FB groups about someone walking around the neighbourhood. When I was growing up, friends and family used to sometimes drop over unexpectedly - that is gone in most communities, seen as an imposition.

You see it all the time on here. People being absolutely furious that their mil popped in for a cup of tea without 7 working days notice, people angry that somebody phoned them without first checking by email if that was acceptable, people annoyed that their neighbours are trying to become friends with him.

But there’s no notion of give and take. These same people moan that people are selfish etc, but if mil can’t pop over for a cuppa then you can’t unexpectedly ask her to babysit. If your neighbours can’t have a chat over the fence they’re less likely to put your bins out while you’re away. If colleagues can’t call you and ask for help they’re unlikely to want to help you when you need them.

I’m really not a fan of the ‘my little family’ thing that’s so popular on mumsnet, and it totally wouldn’t work for me. If you’re happy only socialising with your husband and children then that’s one thing, but I think it’s a bit OTT to act like anybody contacting you at any time is somehow intruding on you and violating your human rights.

@Kanaloa

The last five years or so I've started to notice weird things like people being upset that someone came to their door unexpectedly, or posting on neighbourhood FB groups about someone walking around the neighbourhood. When I was growing up, friends and family used to sometimes drop over unexpectedly - that is gone in most communities, seen as an imposition.

You see it all the time on here. People being absolutely furious that their mil popped in for a cup of tea without 7 working days notice, people angry that somebody phoned them without first checking by email if that was acceptable, people annoyed that their neighbours are trying to become friends with him.

But there’s no notion of give and take. These same people moan that people are selfish etc, but if mil can’t pop over for a cuppa then you can’t unexpectedly ask her to babysit. If your neighbours can’t have a chat over the fence they’re less likely to put your bins out while you’re away. If colleagues can’t call you and ask for help they’re unlikely to want to help you when you need them.

I’m really not a fan of the ‘my little family’ thing that’s so popular on mumsnet, and it totally wouldn’t work for me. If you’re happy only socialising with your husband and children then that’s one thing, but I think it’s a bit OTT to act like anybody contacting you at any time is somehow intruding on you and violating your human rights.

Some of us dont be friends with people so theyll do things for us? I do everything myself, so any relationship or friendship I have is based on my like of them not what they can do for me.

@Kanaloa

The last five years or so I've started to notice weird things like people being upset that someone came to their door unexpectedly, or posting on neighbourhood FB groups about someone walking around the neighbourhood. When I was growing up, friends and family used to sometimes drop over unexpectedly - that is gone in most communities, seen as an imposition.

You see it all the time on here. People being absolutely furious that their mil popped in for a cup of tea without 7 working days notice, people angry that somebody phoned them without first checking by email if that was acceptable, people annoyed that their neighbours are trying to become friends with him.

But there’s no notion of give and take. These same people moan that people are selfish etc, but if mil can’t pop over for a cuppa then you can’t unexpectedly ask her to babysit. If your neighbours can’t have a chat over the fence they’re less likely to put your bins out while you’re away. If colleagues can’t call you and ask for help they’re unlikely to want to help you when you need them.

I’m really not a fan of the ‘my little family’ thing that’s so popular on mumsnet, and it totally wouldn’t work for me. If you’re happy only socialising with your husband and children then that’s one thing, but I think it’s a bit OTT to act like anybody contacting you at any time is somehow intruding on you and violating your human rights.

Totally agree with every word of this.

The "my little family" really worries me and it disturbs me that its got such growing currency.
a) Its so insular and excluding everyone else apart from your husband and children sounds so dull and lacking in variety
b) Its completely illogical: how the hell did you set up your "little family" in the first place if you didn't venture out and meet someone
c) You leave yourself very vulnerable to abuse if you take this approach.
d) It sets a bad example to children when learning to socialise if their parents never seen another adult and jump when the phone rings
e) It's smug and nauseating

And I agree that one can't stop people from feeling like this but I think we ought to push back against the idea that this is a normal or desirable way to be.

Some of us dont be friends with people so theyll do things for us? I do everything myself, so any relationship or friendship I have is based on my like of them not what they can do for me.

I wasn’t suggesting you be friends with people ‘so they’ll do things for you.‘ I was simply commenting on a trend I’ve noticed whereby people don’t seem to want to do anything for anyone but then complain that others don’t want to do things for them.

Whereas in my opinion letting mil come round for dinner/a coffee is part of being a family. Same with occasional babysitting of family children, being kind to neighbours etc. Obviously drawing appropriate boundaries but if you never to anything for anyone or make the effort you can’t then complain that grandparents never seem interested/neighbours are unhelpful etc.

* I think this militant introvertism*

I literally ONLY see militant introvertism on mumsnet
Not amongst friends, family, colleagues, acquaintances etc
Only mumsnet

@thepeopleversuswork

What abuse?
What kind of abuse are people vulnerable to, by having an enclosed social circle?

We speak to our neighbors, however they'll never be our friends. We don't have anything in common.
I think it's a bit strange wanting to be everyone's friend. I known my friends since knee height, with a few additions.
I have to admit I mute my phone past a certain time, I have no more headspace to give when I'm busy.

Next week for instance we as a couple have massage booked on Tuesday, then a trip to London Thursday-Sunday. We also have a fertility meeting, wedding to plan and birthdays upcoming.

Feb we're flying out to Lithuania for a suprise birthday and stopping in Harrogate for 2 nights.

This is on top of her 60 hrs at work, my business and two kids to manage.

Oh and daughter no 2 is having a friend over for a playdate-dinner this Friday.

So no, sorry, colleagues can stay at work in work time.😂😂😂

I am pretty introverted. I never used to be, I was very much the opposite, but I've become this way over time. I didn't "enjoy" the pandemic and don't want any more lockdowns. I can still keep myself to myself without them.

I find people exhausting and I'm always fearful of saying the wrong thing or being perceived as weird etc. Social media, forums like this etc have warped my mind about what people are actually like too I think. Most people are OK in real life, they don't snipe at you and try to prove how wrong you are at any opportunity. Sometimes I forget this and I get scared of talking to people IRL.They might think it in their heads but at least they don't say it all the time like they do online.

Toanewstart22 Tue 18-Jan-22 12:39:18
I think this militant introvertism

"I literally ONLY see militant introvertism on mumsnet
Not amongst friends, family, colleagues, acquaintances etc
Only mumsnet"

Me too. Never in real life.

[quote Hrpuffnstuff1]@thepeopleversuswork

What abuse?
What kind of abuse are people vulnerable to, by having an enclosed social circle?

We speak to our neighbors, however they'll never be our friends. We don't have anything in common.
I think it's a bit strange wanting to be everyone's friend. I known my friends since knee height, with a few additions.
I have to admit I mute my phone past a certain time, I have no more headspace to give when I'm busy.

Next week for instance we as a couple have massage booked on Tuesday, then a trip to London Thursday-Sunday. We also have a fertility meeting, wedding to plan and birthdays upcoming.

Feb we're flying out to Lithuania for a suprise birthday and stopping in Harrogate for 2 nights.

This is on top of her 60 hrs at work, my business and two kids to manage.

Oh and daughter no 2 is having a friend over for a playdate-dinner this Friday.

So no, sorry, colleagues can stay at work in work time.😂😂😂[/quote]
well, for starters if you reduce your social circle to just you and your husband, you're at much larger risk of abuse because your husband is the only other adult you routinely see so obviously you have no other frame of reference. So, God forbid if your husband did become abusive (and let's hope he doesn't), you're a bit stuck if you've shut everyone else out.

I'm not talking about "wanting to be everyone's friend", but the idea that you acquire friends at nursery or primary and then stop after that point is bizarre and quite unhealthy in my view. Why do certain people (those you've known for decades and your husband) pass some arbitrary threshold while everyone else is suspect?

If you approach the world assuming that everyone other than your husband is the enemy then they will feel like the enemy. But also you're putting far too much emotional power in the hands of your husband. What happens if you split up? Don't you want the perspective of other people in your life other than three people all of whom you've known for decades?

@StellaGibson118

I am pretty introverted. I never used to be, I was very much the opposite, but I've become this way over time. I didn't "enjoy" the pandemic and don't want any more lockdowns. I can still keep myself to myself without them.

I find people exhausting and I'm always fearful of saying the wrong thing or being perceived as weird etc. Social media, forums like this etc have warped my mind about what people are actually like too I think. Most people are OK in real life, they don't snipe at you and try to prove how wrong you are at any opportunity. Sometimes I forget this and I get scared of talking to people IRL.They might think it in their heads but at least they don't say it all the time like they do online.

Right. But the solution to that is not to shut yourself away from people and rely even more on the echo chamber of social media.

I don't need a solution, I'm alright as I am...

@Flynnqwer
Erm,
Mrs hr might give you a clue, that I'm actually a man.

I didn't say, I or we have few friends, however as we age the world shrinks, obligations and responsibilities become real. Prioritizing within a 24hr timeframe becomes complex and for a period some people and even work or hobbies to an extent are pushed to the background. Other objectives take their place in the foreground.
I've had to sacrifice selfish personal goals for family life.

You have to remember that people have certain levels of ambition especially work-life-goals, these are not all compatible. In our busy schedule, there is little time for embracing others outside of our normal circle.
The pandemic has certainly forced people to be insular for a while, maybe there is an agreement that social acknowledgment is limited and in some cases hostile.

@StellaGibson118

I don't need a solution, I'm alright as I am...

Maybe, but by your own admission you find people "exhausting" and have had your own mind "warped".

Obviously you can suit yourself and if you want to retreat into yourself, who am I to stop you. But I don't think treating most people as potentially hostile an especially healthy way to live and I don't really want to live in a society where this is the default reaction to having contact from strangers, thank you very much.

[quote Hrpuffnstuff1]@Flynnqwer
Erm,
Mrs hr might give you a clue, that I'm actually a man.

I didn't say, I or we have few friends, however as we age the world shrinks, obligations and responsibilities become real. Prioritizing within a 24hr timeframe becomes complex and for a period some people and even work or hobbies to an extent are pushed to the background. Other objectives take their place in the foreground.
I've had to sacrifice selfish personal goals for family life.

You have to remember that people have certain levels of ambition especially work-life-goals, these are not all compatible. In our busy schedule, there is little time for embracing others outside of our normal circle.
The pandemic has certainly forced people to be insular for a while, maybe there is an agreement that social acknowledgment is limited and in some cases hostile.[/quote]
I didn't understand most of your post tbh but the point about the risk of abuse stands whether you're a man or a woman. Relying solely on your partner is not a healthy way to live for anyone.

I didn't say, I or we have few friends, however as we age the world shrinks

I think the exact opposite! As I’ve gotten older I’ve gathered new people from different places. I think you miss out on a lot by saying ‘I’ve had all my friends from being knee high’ etc, as if you don’t need anyone but who you’ve had all your life.

Like I said upthread if you’re happy with it then that’s okay, but it’s more the idea that anyone ever phoning you/knocking your door/saying hello in a shop is somehow violating you and is rude for daring to not understand that you’re far far too busy to possibly engage in normal social interaction.

@Kanaloa

Totally agree with this. If people want to maintain a limited social circle that's fine, but the idea that extending any social outreach to people is "intrusive" is just really unhealthy. This is one of the more negative impacts of this pandemic and I think it needs to be called out as such.

It's not just the plague that has done this. The lower orders/'ordinary' people have always been encouraged by the ruling classes to limit their interactions with one another, it's all part of 'knowing your place'. In some countries, including the UK, we've had decades of propaganda about the dangers of 'other' people, people who are 'not like us' (interestingly, working class people have simultaneously been lectured about the importance of 'community' which, in this context, means unpaid labour to fill in the gaps that the authorities won't provide funding for). Migrants, benefit claimants, LGBTQ people - they are all the enemy in some way. And, more recently, the gentrifying of neighbourhoods by property developers has had increasingly obvious undercurrents of 'buy property here and you will be able to keep the peasants completely out of your sight apart from those who come to serve you'.

So it's not that surprising that people become increasingly insular and fearful and mean-minded.

@Kanaloa

I didn't say, I or we have few friends, however as we age the world shrinks

I think the exact opposite! As I’ve gotten older I’ve gathered new people from different places. I think you miss out on a lot by saying ‘I’ve had all my friends from being knee high’ etc, as if you don’t need anyone but who you’ve had all your life.

Like I said upthread if you’re happy with it then that’s okay, but it’s more the idea that anyone ever phoning you/knocking your door/saying hello in a shop is somehow violating you and is rude for daring to not understand that you’re far far too busy to possibly engage in normal social interaction.

Same here. There are only a handful of people I have known since my school days, but I seem to gather in new people pretty much every year - though admittedly a percentage of them I rarely, if ever, see face to face.