Should he stay with his elderly mother?

[badspella]

I am caught between two very strong sets of opinions with respect to a situation relating to the care of my elderly mother in law.

MIL is 89 and has the early stages of dementia. She is not poorly enough to need daily care, but my husband (her son) pops in to see her every day, and her husband (husband's stepfather) receives daily care for chronic mobility problems (help getting up and dressed etc). The carers also check on MIL.

My husband's stepfather had a nasty fall yesterday and he has broken his hip. He is now in hospital and will almost certainly need an operation. It is estimated that he will be in hospital for about two weeks, if no complications set in. It is also likely that complications will set in because the poor man has had several episodes of sepsis over the past five years.

MIL would like my husband to stay with her until her husband returns home. She lives in a very rural setting, and, although she is quite healthy, she is 89, walks with a stick and there is a risk of her falling. She is very afraid of being on her own, particularly at night,

My husband and I do not live together and he has no work commitments. My husband is adamant that he cannot stay with his mother. He states that they do not really get on and that his mother constantly follows him and asks him repetitive questions. He stayed with her for a few days when his stepfather was in hospital last year, and it ended with my husband leaving abruptly (to put it mildly) and upsetting his mother. He will, however see her every day.

Yesterday, my MIL called me and pleaded with me to try to persuade my husband to stay with her. She did sound quite upset. I talked to her and told her I would speak to my husband, and that he would see her every day whatever the case. My husband, however, is vehemently opposed to staying with his mother, even for a short time.

I would stay, if it was possible. However, I am the sole carer for our young adult son who is in MH crisis, I do not drive, and I could not work from my MIL's property (no Internet). Furthermore, it is my husband whom she wants to stay. We get on well, and speak every day on the phone, but she wants her son to stay.

On one hand, I feel that as long as my husband sees his mother every day, and her care needs are met, there should be no problem, and this would be better than my husband losing his temper or storming off.

On the other hand, I feel really sorry for his mother, who is very old, very worried about her husband and very scared.

What should I do in this situation? I really feel for my MIL, but I am aware of what happened last year.

Doesn't live with you, doesn't work and won't put himself out for his mum. Lovely.
Can I assume he would step up to care for his son if you were able to go stay with his mum for a few days?

Your best bet is to phone social services and see what they can put in place.

His Mum is 89. It is very possible that he is retired

@user1471505494, if he's retired, all the more reason for him to step up when his mother needs him. OP works and is the sole carer for their son. So what are the husband's committments?

Caring for an elderly with dementia is no walk in the park, but this is temporary and (unless his mother was abusive/neglectful/narcissistic/etc and ruined his childhood) he owes it yo her to suck it up for a few days.

So is the new MumsNet concept that we have children so they can care for us in old age and infirmity?

The lady has a carer already. It sounds as if she needs extra help overnight. It also sounds as if while she wants her son they don't actually get on. If he can't cope with her condition then the last thing needed is to force him into it. If he's forced into it and it all goes wrong then he's the baddy rather than those who put him in that position.

It's a situation thats going to become more and more common as we live longer.

@BigFatLiar

So is the new MumsNet concept that we have children so they can care for us in old age and infirmity?

The lady has a carer already. It sounds as if she needs extra help overnight. It also sounds as if while she wants her son they don't actually get on. If he can't cope with her condition then the last thing needed is to force him into it. If he's forced into it and it all goes wrong then he's the baddy rather than those who put him in that position.

It's a situation thats going to become more and more common as we live longer.

No the carers are her husbands carers and he's not home so the carers won't visit. She just wants her son to stay with her overnight for a short while, until her husband comes home.

The problem is that there's no guarantee that the husband will come home. Two weeks is not 'a few days' and if the man doesn't want to stay at his mother's then he is not the best carer anyway. She needs to have her own care assessment done.

Could your husband sleep over every night at his mum’s then go to work/wfh at his home? That way he’s there at night, but has a break and can conduct his normal life? Definitely not ideal and desperately sad.

Why on Earth doesn’t he take some part in caring for your son?

He doesn’t work, doesn’t parent and won’t help his mother? What does he do?

What about getting her a care alarm so in case she does fall she can summon help for herself.

I dont think the husbands commitments are actually relevant.

It looks like this is at the stage where living together on their own in a rural setting with their joint needs simply is no longer sustainable. Him staying over for the next two weeks is a papering over the cracks solution rather than actually solving the cracks themselves - it doesnt look like it is going to just be 2 weeks.

They need I think to start the process of moving somewhere that can offer them more

From his point of view
Perhaps he is thinking, how long will this go on for, the request to stay overnight?
Days
Weeks
Months
Years

My late mother had dementia. There is no way I could have stayed with her for more than a couple of days before she drove me raving bonkers.

She needs respite care while her DH is in hospital.

Respite care, overnight companion or alarm. Which would she be more comfortable with? It’s pointless trying to get your husband to do it - you are flogging a dead horse there. You can’t do it, so that leaves you the 3 options. She is vulnerable, call SS but don’t hold your breath or have you tried age concern?

Why doesn't he live with you and share care of your son??

I agree that additional care would be more appropriate. From what the OP said from and personal experience this could stretch out for months or years. But no alternative arrangements can be made quickly, especially at the moment, so he may need to suck it up for a couple of weeks while they are made. And hope that it is just a couple of weeks and that his parents see sense (unlike many). I have a lot of sympathy with the DH, he can probably see what the future will hold very clearly indeed. Boundaries are as important as empathy.

@Quartz2208

I dont think the husbands commitments are actually relevant.

It looks like this is at the stage where living together on their own in a rural setting with their joint needs simply is no longer sustainable. Him staying over for the next two weeks is a papering over the cracks solution rather than actually solving the cracks themselves - it doesnt look like it is going to just be 2 weeks.

They need I think to start the process of moving somewhere that can offer them more

Which is going to take months (assuming they sell relatively quickly)

What's she to do till then?

He could stay and use the time to organise proper care for her. And maybe get PoA as it looks like that may be needed urgently

@Nanny0gg relevant to us - it is clear he is not wanting to do this so they have to work around it. He could have huge number or none I dont think it matters

It is the danger of just assuming that ones children are going to look after you in your old age. From what the OP says this isnt an out of the blue reaction by the husband/son but a long term pattern of behaviour.

Is the right thing to do what you say - of course but it is something that should have been started ages ago. He is clearly not going to do it now so more should have been done before

Could your MIL stay you for a short period of time? As in it would be harder to get short term carers, etc organised ASAP.

Then your DH could sort out proper care, PoA, possible moving etc.

another possibility - would the carers do overnight stays or could the agency they're employed by send out an overnight carer?

@Thevoiceofreason2021

Respite care, overnight companion or alarm. Which would she be more comfortable with? It’s pointless trying to get your husband to do it - you are flogging a dead horse there. You can’t do it, so that leaves you the 3 options. She is vulnerable, call SS but don’t hold your breath or have you tried age concern?

I agree with this.

I feel sorry for her but I also understand why he can't stay with her. It's too much responsibility, even if she didn't annoy him.

I have thought about even living with my mum but tbh if she was 89 and using a stick I'd want a carer there rather than me.

I'm assuming DH is retired.
If your husband says there is no way he can stay overnight then believe him! He is doing what he can manage emotionally ( which is just as important as what he can do physically)
He has tried to stay before and it has been too much.
Caring for someone with dementia is incredibly stressful and there are likely to be difficult family dynamics causing emotional stress too
Your husband has set a boundary about what he feels he can do. His mother has then phoned you to try and manipulate the situation. This may sound harsh to some but everyone has different levels of emotional strength/capacity and this will depend on all sorts of things including the type of relationship the person has had with their mother growing up and as an adult. There is no point in him making himself emotionally unwell as that just creates another problem.
Having realised all of that, THEN see what can be done to help an elderly lady in the early stages of dementia.
So your husband will visit every day. Great.
Could she or he afford a live in carer for the fortnight ( you can employ one through an agency but they are expensive)?
It might be time to get a needs assessment for his mother independently of her husband. Your DH could see if his mother would accept this and arrange it
You also need to think about the impact if your husband stays with his mum moving forward. It is easier for SS to deny or not meet needs if he is staying as he is there. When her husband is fit to leave hospital they may discharge him home if your DH is there whereas they would have put in extra care or organised intermediate care if he isn't. He could end up being "stuck" where he can't leave because of their care needs but additional resources won't be put in place because he is there.

Could you pay the normal carers who visit her DH to visit your MIL instead with maybe some extra visits?

The posters saying get extra care in have clearly not tried to organise care recently. There is a massive shortage. It took 2 months to arrange 4 short visits a day for my dad. He is in hospital now and there are people on his ward who have been waiting for care home places so they can be discharged for a month.
Everyone with elderly parents needs to think now about a long term "what if" plan so there is at least a starting point agreed.
If they are self funding the current care arrangements they can continue with those and if they are very lucky increase the cover.

@LakieLady

My late mother had dementia. There is no way I could have stayed with her for more than a couple of days before she drove me raving bonkers.

She needs respite care while her DH is in hospital.

I think so too.

He states that...his mother constantly follows him and asks him repetitive questions Well yes, that’s what often happens when you have dementia.

I think your only option is to tell your husband that he needs to either organise emergency residential care for her, full time carers, or phone Adult Social Services and tell them that she’s on her own and he isn’t interested in caring for her. Those are the only options. Either he does it now, or he deals with the consequences of her leaving the cooker on and burning the house down, or wandering off in her nighty at 3am and passing away from exhaustion and exposure in the middle of a field somewhere.

It’s all very well him not wanting to take responsibility for caring for his mother. It’s an attitude I struggle to understand (particularly if he’d be willing to accept an inheritance from her) but that’s his prerogative. What is not acceptable is that his lack of action is now impacting on you. He’s handed over enough responsibility onto you already.

Definitely some more care needed. She's 89. Has anyone in the family planned for how to handle this situation, i.e. when an elderly couple can no longer look after one another? I do hope that if your husband isn't available to stay over with his mum, he is at least doing the research to look into alternatives for her. He sounds like he'd have more time free for it than you would.