Is calling women ' birds ' or duck rude ?

[YogaRebel]

I was brought up to believe referring to a woman as a ' bird' is quite rude and belittling. Eg I saw him with his bird the other day.
What his new birds name ?

My husband disagrees - he thinks it's a term of endearment / description and just a colloquialism in certain parts of the country.

I'd say that's true of duck eg ' Ay up me duck ' but not convinced about bird. I don't want my teenage son referring to girls as birds but I'm told I'm being OTT.

I grew up near Liverpool and bird was used all the time, I think the male equivalent would have been fella, maybe. Context is everything like pps have said but I don’t see bird as insulting.

Duck is sweet, it reminds me of my nanna. She also used to call people chucklebutty, there’s a word you don’t come across every day

"Duck" is not gender-related. Where I grew up everyone called each other "my duck", men and women.

Birds is one of those words for me where the difference between theory and practice is a huge gulf and the context is all.

In theory its sexist and patronising and I don't approve. In practice I couldn't really give a shit if its used affectionately and use it myself in some circumstances. It's all about tone and context. A builder on a street corner saying: "that bird is really fit" is a world away from me calling an old friend "you daft old bird".

'bird' or 'burd' or 'burde' was another word for girl, young woman. There's a character in folk tales and ballads called 'Burd Ellen' which is exactly like the name of the character 'Maid Marian' in the Robin Hood tales.

The word fell out of use in the English of the formally educated but remained in dialect and working class speech. Which is why, as PPs have noted, it still just means girl or young woman in places like Liverpool.

The example in the OP of ‘bird’ is sexist.

‘Duck’, ‘dear’, ‘love’ etc is usually unisex.

It’s definitely rude! I grew up in Essex and despised being referred to as a bird and would correct anyone that said it to me.
its only ever used towards woman and just makes me feel icky and gross, I am not a bird, I am not an inferior, weak creature, I am a woman of equal ground to any man.

Duck regional friendly term like saying love etc. It is not used where I live, we get Love and I often respond I'm not your love! But then I am fairly cantankerous.

Bird always derogatory in my view. If I was in Liverpool and someone called me that (unlikely as too old) I would challenge it and would tell my daughter to do the same.

Why are we so terminally offended by everything these days? It’s so boring.

Duck is a term of endearment, you call kids duck or close younger relatives, mostly female but also boys under teen age.

Bird is different because it's used in a derogatory manner by men about their girlfriend/dp/wife.

I have no problem with duck or love as those are generally used in a friendly way by both sexes to both sexes.

Bird is a term use by men about women and it comes across as very belittling; rather similar to a man referring to his wife as 'the wife'.

@HugeAckmansWife

Totally different. Duck is a term of endearment like chick, hen, pet (though that can be patronising). Birds is awful though. Short for dolly bird.. Like all dolled up, pretty ornamental, useless.

Was going to say similar. Alright me duck, is a bit patronising as it's only said to women, but it's a term of endearment and the equivalent of cock is sometimes used for men.

Bird refers to a Dolly bird and is not OK.

My female friend from Somerset calls me bird as in "you doing alright bird?" and I hear duck all the time (living in the midlands) for both men and women. Bird in itself isn't offensive or derogatory. It depends who's using it and in what context. "Sweetheart" dripping with sarcasm and loathing is very different to "sweetheart" when I speak to my kids.

Bird can be derogatory, depending on context. A man referring to a woman, or women, he doesn’t know, for example. I’m sure some people do use it more as a term of endearment though. Duck is different, and very much a colloquial thing in the Midlands, Lincolnshire, South Yorkshire regions. I’ve heard all genders say it to all genders, and it’s almost the default way of referring to someone for the older generations in some regions.

Bird - not acceptable.

Duck - used to address men and women by men and women where I live. Also, you don't say 'a duck' like saying 'a bird'.

Duck is used for both men and women where I live.

"Bird refers to a Dolly bird and is not OK."

But it doesn't as explained. Written it is burde.

Bird refers to a Dolly bird and is not OK.

Not all birds are dolly birds though, so it can’t be that.

According to dictionary central, it’s been in use for a long time…

As early as 1300, bird was used for ‘girl’, but this was probably owing to confusion with another similar middle English word, burde, which also meant ‘young woman’. The usage crops up from time to time in later centuries, clearly as an independent metaphorical application, but there does not really seem to be an unbroken chain of occurrences leading up to the sudden explosion in the use of bird for ‘young woman’ in the 20th century.

I view calling a woman a bird the same as calling a man a bloke. Doesn't offend me at all and Duck is used for males and females in certain parts of the country.

Well done OP for discouraging your son's use of this word, I would do the same with my son if I ever heard him use it. Not likely thankfully. The old use/meaning of this or any word is really a total irrelevance, it is the current connotation that matters.

When I was a teenager, we had terms for blokes that may now be seen as offensive. These words divided blokes into two groups - good looking and not so good looking 🤣. These words will have very different meanings to other people.

I think that sometimes meanings get blurred.

'Your bird' - was used to describe a man's girlfriend and 'Our lass' was used by men describing a partner/wife.

I'm not sure bird was used by women to describe/name other women.

I think that the 'dolly bird' phrasing from which 'bird' originated was not common knowledge as all girlfriends were regarded as birds where I came from regardless of 'looks/being dolled up'. I did not regard this as offensive. I suppose it's old fashioned.

I think that the 'dolly bird' phrasing from which 'bird' originated

Bird didn’t originate from dolly bird. Bird on its own preceded dolly bird by about 600 years.

@etulosba

I think you know very well what is being referred to within recent generations.

Cute.

People should be careful whenever using slang terms to describe other people. Whether it's actually rude of not depends on context. But it's certainly potentially rude at least.

Context (and relationships, e.g. how intimate you are with that person) matters lots.
But a good test is: "would you call your boss/teacher/Queen/etc. that word?"
If the answer is "no", then you know it might be rude in strangers me contexts.
And if you use the word to describe someone else, think hard: does it mean in your head that they deserve less respect than your boss/teacher/Queen/etc.?

It can be a term of endearment, for someone close to you (or perhaps to break the ice, even if they're not that close?).
But if used to characterise all members of a group, even strangers, it hints at basic lack of respect. It's belittling and vaguely dehumanising.

Do men call us birds because we pick up worms?

"some", not "stranger me"!

The perceived "sudden explosion in the use of bird for 'young woman' in the 20th century" is undoubtedly linked to the increased prominence of dialect and working class vocabulary, particularly in the audiovisual media but also in print media (replacing to some extent "BBC / the Queen's English").