To think some dog breeds should never ever be around babies and children

[Redburnett]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59953038
Such a sad case where the dogs had apparently never shown aggressive tendencies previously.

The child protection plan this baby was on stages the dogs should be kept behind the baby gate. The parents ignored this.

The dad was too busy outside smoking and left the baby in the living room while the mother slept ( after she had taken sleeping tablets). Baby was left unsupervised on the sofa which is unsafe in itself.

It's a recipe for disaster. I'd be really interested in the reason for the CPP.

I love staffies. Brought up 3 babies with mine, never left unsupervised but he loved the kids. He's passed away now but he didn't bite, not once. Even when he was old and grumpy. However both my cats and my rabbit have all bitten/scratched all the kids at some point

My 6 year old granddaughter loves our little maltese/poodle cross and a spent an afternoon (supervised at all times) playing with him and his toys. She did want to pick him up and carry him, which I discouraged but she managed a couple of times.

He took it all in his stride. He absolutely loves children and I have to stop him approaching children he doesn't know quite a lot.

But, that evening we had a family barbeque. The dog was tired and sleeping next to me. Our granddaughter went up to him and a very quiet low growl was the result.

It was a teaching moment for her and illustrates why supervision is necessary with small children. But I would not hesitate to leave him with an older child IF they know how to treat dogs.

I have a pittbull and she’s been in our family since my son was 2 and my daughter was newborn. She’s a perfect dog, goes to doggy daycare, never put a foot wrong. It’s twats like you that give dogs like this a bad name. At the end of the day a dog is a dog. Its the owner that gives the dog a bad name

A staffie bite is clearly going to be worse than the bite of a pomeranian, but the pomeranian would be far more likely to bite.
Im sure pomeranians can be nice, but these little dogs are 90% nervous wrecks.

It's a giant combination of things
A well bred staffy, bred from good tempered parents, brought up well, taken to dog training, living in a calm household and exercised regularly...
a staff bred from dodgy parents, bad tempered or trained to fight, never been to dog training, taught to dangle from branches, not exercise enough, cooped up and encouraged to snap/pull/bite...

same with any dog but I see it from the idiots near me that are making a dog hang from a tree, it's not a Labrador they've got, it's a bull breed that does nothing but get riled up all day and they push and push it "go on, get it, bite" and then people wonder why they snap

I grew up with a soft GSD who was my absolute world as a child so I'm happy around bigger dogs but I think it's breeding and environment rather than breed specific. But of course bigger dogs do more damage and in a (I don't want to say household like that) specific type of home, it will be a staffy that they have, that is under exercised, over stimulated and not supervised

Plenty of things can happen that can cause an animal that's been soft and cuddly all its life to suddenly become aggressive, it happened to one of my cats. For 8 years she was the clingiest, most affectionate little cat ever and never bit or scratched and then one day out of the blue a blood clot landed on her spine and paralysed her back end. When I tried to pick her up to take to the emergency vets she attacked me - proper went for me. It hurt but it hasn't even left a scar, if that had been the staffie I don't think I could say the same.

I have a staffie. They need consistency of training, time, routine, plenty of exercise, stimulation, a calm home life etc. I would never leave my dogs alone with a child. Why would anyone with a grain of sense take any risk with their children?

Oh, nothing to do with the breed you say?

The following infographic shows that the Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year period – 66 percent of total fatalities. That’s despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population

The American Pit Bull Terrier is a completely separate breed from the Staffy.

Except not every Terrier has the jaw size or power of a Staffie.

Except if a Yorkie flips and attacks you it's likely to be survivable.
When some of these bull or mastiff breeds flip, you are likely to die.
Why would you have that in your home with or without children?

@montysma1

Except if a Yorkie flips and attacks you it's likely to be survivable. When some of these bull or mastiff breeds flip, you are likely to die. Why would you have that in your home with or without children?

True. But given that almost any dog can kill a small child, the bigger risk is the dog which is likely to attack in the first place.

@Binjob118

From a biomechanical pov, a bull type breed have a much stronger bite that other breeds. This plus the strength is why they are involved in so many deaths and serious injuries. I would never have these breeds around children.

Actually pit bulls, staffies and bulldogs are way down the list in terms of jaw strength

The kangal has the strongest at 743 psi.

Labradors have rougjly the samd jaw strength as a pit bull terrier. Labradors bite at approx 230psi and pit bulls at around 235psi. German shepherds are 238. As you can see most pet dog breeds are roughly at the same level of bite force. American bull dogs are a little stronger at 305psi

*roughly the same - sorry it's late and I'm not the sharpest tool in the box at this time of night

This is about dog on dog attacks, but the part I find interesting is the majority were off leash.

Yes, the most common breed was the Staffordshire bull terrier, but maybe its the kind of people who own them in these cases that are more interesting? See the staffie as tough, not using a leash?

I do remember that for many years JRTs were responsible for more bites to humans than any other breed in the UK.

"National and local news articles between September 2016 and February 2020 were identified through Yahoo and Google news. Information was retrieved including victim/attacker dog information (age, breed, size, sex, injury, veterinary treatment, on/off a lead, with/without the owner/walker), situation, intervention, owner injury, and outcome. In the majority of these attacks, one dog initiated the attack and this dog tended to be a medium-sized breed and off-leash. The most reported attacking breed was the Staffordshire bull terrier. The victim tended to be a small-sized dog, and these attacks often had adverse psychological and physical effects. Costs as a result of the attack ranged from £75 to £9,000 (~ $98-11,800 USD). The owner intervened in just under half of cases and often suffered injuries defending their dog.(Montrose, 2020)

And thinking about it, it's not about jaw strength, although jrts are very strong, it's also the neck and shoulder power, and propensity to shake their prey that can cause the most injuries.

Most terriers except perhaps the tiniest toy terriers, are easily capable of killing a newborn or small baby.

A MAJOR issue here is that people confuse aggression with predation.

They are NOT the same thing - aggression is almost always about creating space, getting something to stop/go away..

This sounds like predation, and predatory drift can happen in ANY breed of dog - certain sounds and movements may trigger a predatory response. The more stressed the dog (and a new situation such as a newborn baby in the house is typically a pretty stressful situation for everyone) the more likely this is.

In this instance the parents are 100% to blame, and I hope they'll be charged with whatever is appropriate for the negligence in causing the death of their child and their dogs. Perhaps THAT is the only way to get through to people that we really MEAN it when we say do not leave dogs alone or unsupervised (and flat out asleep IS unsupervised) with children.

Banning breeds however does not work, we've tried it, it has not reduced death. We need another strategy.

Such unnecessary thoughtless stupidity from the father.
Unless I could physically restrain or murder the dog with ease if it attacked I wouldn't have it in my home.
These particular dogs are so strong, like a block of muscle.
XL bullies are the new fashion dog, there not on leads they have teenagers training them.
Crazy.

Why do people continuously defend this breed? Bull dogs and bull dog crosses are by far the biggest killers (maybe not biters, but absolutely killers) and this includes Staffordshire terriers. Why would you have these dogs? I don't get it.

Most terriers except perhaps the tiniest toy terriers, are easily capable of killing a newborn or small baby.

Capable yes, but almost never happens. And yes, before people trot it out, I know a JRT has once killed a baby, but that is a massive anomaly compared to the number of Staffordshire terriers that have done so.

Wow, bull terrier type breed you say? Aggressively attacking a human being? Surely not. Aren't they cute Ickle "nanny dogs" who would never ever hurt a fly unless they have bad owners? 🙄

They're genetically predisposed to this type of behaviour. Doesn't matter how many jumbones and tummy rubs you give them. Doesn't matter if they're called "Fluffy" and they're your baby and you never ever expected it of a 9 stone monster with a locking jaw of sharp teeth. They are genetically predisposed to this type of behaviour. Nature vs nurture- nature will win in too many cases and you should never be prepared to take that gamble with your children. Yes, yes, I'm sure many of you have a gentle killing machine which would don a pinny and make you all tea and toast if it could, but the unwillingness to accept that the creature you insist is known to be gentle and brilliant with kids is also known to rip them to pieces blows my mind.

YABU. No which thing as a bad dog, only bad owners. My dgd has grown up alongside my very large pack of rescue dogs. From the age of about 4 she could control them almost as well as me! But she was never, ever for one minute left alone with them. I trust my dogs 100% but would I trust them with her life? Obviously not, they are animals and I never forget that.

@getsanta

Why do people continuously defend this breed? Bull dogs and bull dog crosses are by far the biggest killers (maybe not biters, but absolutely killers) and this includes Staffordshire terriers. Why would you have these dogs? I don't get it.

I agree!!! Yes all dogs can prob bite, I doubt all could rip your head off. I hate the constant narrative that stafs are lovely friendly dogs- it’s clearly the reason they attack so much, in their mind protecting their owner

@getsanta

Why do people continuously defend this breed? Bull dogs and bull dog crosses are by far the biggest killers (maybe not biters, but absolutely killers) and this includes Staffordshire terriers. Why would you have these dogs? I don't get it.

Because they are overwhelmingly brilliant dogs and make good family pets. Theyre usually loving, expressive, friendly, obedient and in tune with their owners. They have big smiles and friendly faces. Theyre clever and trainable. Theyre hardy. Sturdy and not delicate, theyre unlikely to be hurt or intimidated by a busy family in fact they usually love it. They are people-loving dogs. Not territorial over homes or places, but attached to their people. Thats why people defend them. Thats why the breed is generally defended and loved by those who have had them. Like any dog, but especially a strong powerful dog though, they need socialising, enough exercise and stimulation, training and boundaries. People need to be made to be educated and assessed before getting a dog that they have the time, capability and resources to raise and keep it properly, and stop letting any bloody scumbag go and pick a cute puppy and take it home, or take on someones already abused and traumatised dog off gumtree or a facebook post, as if its a toy.

Inbetween the dog haters who just dont get it, and the people who think dogs are all sweet innocent angels and the bad ones are just misunderstood, maybe theres an actual sensible solution to the issue of dangerous dogs, and making them go through a few hoops first, would cut down a lot more issues than just demonising an entire breed unfairly.