Page 10 | To think some dog breeds should never ever be around babies and children

Redburnett · 2022-01-13T10:09:52+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59953038]] Such a sad case where the dogs had apparently never shown aggressive tendencies previously.

Ylvamoon · 14/01/2022 08:19

Why do people continuously defend this breed? Bull dogs and bull dog crosses are by far the biggest killers (maybe not biters, but absolutely killers) and this includes Staffordshire terriers. Why would you have these dogs? I don't get it

I fully agree. In some European countries Staffies are banned under a dangerous dog act. They are not the family dog people want them to be. No dog is, dogs are predators with a high prey drive, we need to treat them accordingly.

wetotter · 14/01/2022 08:27

People are not defending dangerous dogs.

And (true) Staffie are about a third smaller than the Staffie/pitbull type hat posters are probably thinking of.

It's problem with owners, not inherent to type of dog. There are a few breeds already banned - it's not stopped attacks, has it? Breed-based bans will never end attacks.

And, it seems, even SS orders as part of a CPP plan won't keep DC safe from dogs either, when you have parents who will just breach them

How should we deal with people like that? Ideally before they raise their dog to be volatile and dangerous?

Branleuse · 14/01/2022 08:36

@Ylvamoon

Why do people continuously defend this breed? Bull dogs and bull dog crosses are by far the biggest killers (maybe not biters, but absolutely killers) and this includes Staffordshire terriers. Why would you have these dogs? I don't get it

I fully agree. In some European countries Staffies are banned under a dangerous dog act. They are not the family dog people want them to be. No dog is, dogs are predators with a high prey drive, we need to treat them accordingly.

rottweilers, german shepherds, chow chows are all on the banned lists in some places.

The fact that some countries have a lot of breed specific legislation doesnt offer any real protection

Anonaymoose · 14/01/2022 09:14

The fact that some countries have a lot of breed specific legislation doesnt offer any real protection

That's because you can't protect against stupid. Stupid owners. Almost all child deaths caused by dog attacks happened because of stupid irresponsible owners.
I have worked with dogs for almost 30 years. I have never ever came across an aggressive SBT. I have feared for my life on more than one occassion (rottweiler and bernese mountain dog). And have came across plenty aggressive retrievers /spaniels /collies.
There is no 'safe' breed where children are concerned, only safe owners.
I personally would never have a dog that could overpower me in my own home regardless of breed.

XelaM · 14/01/2022 09:26

@Anonaymoose "I personally would never have a dog that could overpower me in my own home regardless of breed."

I agree with this part. Why would people want to have a dog in their house that's much stronger than them so could easily cause damage if they chose? I don't get this. We have a toy breed and we can easily remove him from any situation if it becomes necessary. He is cuddly and portable. Why would anyone want to have a very powerful dog in their own home? Especially with kids

Pazuzu · 14/01/2022 09:42

Dogs are not humans. Dogs react how dogs react.

We've got a small dog. Lovely, friendly, gentle nutcase who's absolutely brilliant with the kids.

Would we leave him with a baby or toddler? No. Absolutely not. No matter how anything he is, he's still a dog and it isn't worth the risk.

Lorw · 14/01/2022 10:03

I’ve got a very small dog, who has never hurt a fly, would never leave him alone with a baby or toddler...don’t think it’s about breed OP, just irresponsible owners.

OhWhyNot · 14/01/2022 10:17

No one has answered the question I raised yesterday. Why do some dogs (and I include the never apparently aggressive lovable staffies who have killed children and I think adults) kill in such a way. We know all dogs can attack and bite and other breeds have killed but not to the same levels. But what is it about these breeds that go for the kill

Other dogs will be treated in the same way, will have the strength, will get just as frustrated have lazy or inexperienced owners this isn’t a class thing (though would appear to be reading this thread) yet we are not hearing of other breeds in the same way

EightWheelGirl · 14/01/2022 10:21

@OhWhyNot

No one has answered the question I raised yesterday. Why do some dogs (and I include the never apparently aggressive lovable staffies who have killed children and I think adults) kill in such a way. We know all dogs can attack and bite and other breeds have killed but not to the same levels. But what is it about these breeds that go for the kill

Other dogs will be treated in the same way, will have the strength, will get just as frustrated have lazy or inexperienced owners this isn’t a class thing (though would appear to be reading this thread) yet we are not hearing of other breeds in the same way

Is it not the terrier ratting instinct? They shake rats to break their neck/back and that's what does the real damage when they bite a human and shake and tear.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 14/01/2022 12:18

@OhWhyNot

No one has answered the question I raised yesterday. Why do some dogs (and I include the never apparently aggressive lovable staffies who have killed children and I think adults) kill in such a way. We know all dogs can attack and bite and other breeds have killed but not to the same levels. But what is it about these breeds that go for the kill

Other dogs will be treated in the same way, will have the strength, will get just as frustrated have lazy or inexperienced owners this isn’t a class thing (though would appear to be reading this thread) yet we are not hearing of other breeds in the same way

Well it’s genetics - same way in the Olympics on the whole different events attract a different race. The dogs in question have a pack mentality, more physically strong through evolution etc.

Branleuse · 14/01/2022 12:21

To answer your question, the more powerful a dog, the more likely it is for an attack to be serious or fatal. Its not that theyre more likely to attack.
A dog of any kind is a responsibility but a powerful dog is a bigger responsibility and by allowing anybody to have one with no checks is the issue

NamechangeTTC · 14/01/2022 12:23

Agree with the comments about not leaving dogs and kids alone. We have the most gentle, loving border collie. She’s soft as shite, and we still wouldn’t leave her with the wee one. They’ve got a lovely bond but if we’re leaving the room, the dog comes with us (if baby playing on mat etc) even if it’s just into the next room for a toy.

Arnia · 14/01/2022 12:55

Genuine question as I have neither a dog nor a child - but if, as many posters are saying, having both means never leaving them alone together, isn't that a lot of hassle? I mean, if you are constantly monitoring what your dog/child is doing and keeping them apart, is it worth having the dog at all?

Complete hassle! But for many (myself included) the dog was there first and so you don't become aware of this until it's too late. That's why whenever my sister or friends start commenting about getting a dog when they have young DC/aren't done having children yet, I strongly encourage them to wait. It's an extra headache you really don't need when you already have all the headaches of small DC

Ylvamoon · 14/01/2022 13:15

Why do some dogs (and I include the never apparently aggressive lovable staffies who have killed children and I think adults) kill in such a way

Because these breeds have been selected for their aggression and prey drive = quick reaction to movements and strong bite to kill fast.
So anything that moves gets their attention. If it is small and wiggly or small and starts running = worth hunting down. Anything with a high pitch sound/ scream is interpreted as distress call = easy prey.
Stuffies have also been used for dog fights, so it's bite first, think later in these breeds. Otherwise they will end up dead.
For dogs, letting instinct take over is the fastest way to successfull hunting.

I hope this answers your question.

OhWhyNot · 14/01/2022 13:30

I know they were originally breed to bait bulls and bears

So basically regardless of training this instinct is there

And that’s why some still have killled children (and adults)

DockOTheBay · 14/01/2022 13:35

I don't think any dog should be allowed near a baby or toddler, especially not unsupervised. And if you have a dog why would you put a baby to sleep on a floor bed or rocking chair or similar, which the dog can get to. There are moses baskets and high sleeper chairs for this exact reason.

DockOTheBay · 14/01/2022 13:37

Genuine question as I have neither a dog nor a child - but if, as many posters are saying, having both means never leaving them alone together, isn't that a lot of hassle? I mean, if you are constantly monitoring what your dog/child is doing and keeping them apart, is it worth having the dog at all?
Yes it probably is a massive hassle. But dogs can have "their" areas e.g. a cage, a utility room or kitchen fenced off, the garden, where the child doesn't go.
Also for a child aged under 5 you would (I would hope) be supervising them almost all the time anyway, so its not that much of an effort to keep an eye on them.

TheChip · 14/01/2022 13:41

My dog doesn't leave my side so when I leave the room, he comes with me. If I can't see him, I ask him where he is at and he will quickly emerge. Not a hassle in the slightest.

3ormoredogs · 14/01/2022 13:48

Nobody disputes a collie has the genetic predisposition to herd sheep, that a terrier will rat, a pointer will point and a retriever will retrieve.

Yet an animal bred to kill another and suddenly everyone screams genetics does not make a dog

HacerSonarSusPasos · 14/01/2022 13:52

@3ormoredogs

Nobody disputes a collie has the genetic predisposition to herd sheep, that a terrier will rat, a pointer will point and a retriever will retrieve.

Yet an animal bred to kill another and suddenly everyone screams genetics does not make a dog

Exactly!

ComtesseDeSpair · 14/01/2022 13:55

@3ormoredogs

Nobody disputes a collie has the genetic predisposition to herd sheep, that a terrier will rat, a pointer will point and a retriever will retrieve.

Yet an animal bred to kill another and suddenly everyone screams genetics does not make a dog

Technically, breeds like pit bulls were developed for high aggression towards other dogs but to be totally submissive towards humans - in dog fighting it’s up to the handler to remove their dog from the ring at the end of a fight and you can’t risk being savaged in doing so.

I think we all agree here that dogs of any breed can be unpredictable and shouldn’t be left alone with children. If everyone in the world followed that sound advice, we wouldn’t need to argue about the breed at all.

Kinko · 14/01/2022 14:01

There was a news story of a Pomeranian killing a 6 week old baby. Mother laid the baby on the middle of a double bed and went to the bathroom to get a nappy.

Dog gave one fetal bite to the neck.

So - in my mind - ANY dog is a risk to a baby.

3ormoredogs · 14/01/2022 14:04

@ComtesseDeSpair I completely agree with the children front.

I guess I’m sick of being scared walking my own dogs that they are going to be torn apart by some giant bull type being walked by someone that can’t control it. I know any dog can damage another but having witnessed a very submissive reminding it’s own business Labrador have it’s throat torn out by a friendly little staffy that even the hulk himself couldn’t have got off I can’t get that image from my head. I honestly love dogs, I work with them also but I am scared of bullies around my own dogs and children (and myself having witnessed a colleague have her face almost bitten clean off by a staffy) although i wouldn’t admit it in real life.

Sadly they seem to be the dog of choice for idiots and I think the breed needs to be protected for its own good, perhaps tighter legislation would not be a bad thing for the breed itself. If only sensible people willing to be assessed or regulated could own one then it would stop these dogs falling into the wrong hands and becoming another statistic.

I would also support this for any larger dog really before anyone jumps down my throat. I have giants and would happily have them assessed by anyone and everyone that would like to in order to keep the world a safer place, why wouldn’t you?

JadeSeahorse · 14/01/2022 14:20

@Kinko

There was a news story of a Pomeranian killing a 6 week old baby. Mother laid the baby on the middle of a double bed and went to the bathroom to get a nappy.

Dog gave one fetal bite to the neck.

So - in my mind - ANY dog is a risk to a baby.

OMG! That is devastating! The mother would have thought her baby was so safe around a beautiful Pomeranian. 😰

I so agree with your last sentence too although I wouldn’t just limit it to babies, ( though they are obviously most vulnerable.). Our very good friends - extremely sensible dog owners - have a gorgeous Cockapoo. I am generally scared of dogs but this one is just adorable and I seriously never thought he would hurt a fly as he has a wonderful nature. However, we tried to introduce him to our adult dd who has severe learning difficulties as she likes dogs, and he began growling and snarling at her. Everyone was really shocked as nobody had seen him behave like that before. He obviously sensed there was something very different about our dd which he couldn’t understand which you couldn’t really blame on the dog. He didn’t attack at all and our dd just thought it was funny 🙄 but just goes to show that ALL dogs are capable of this behaviour but it could often just be because they are confused.

I still love our friends’s Cockapoo and he - for some weird reason - seems to adore me. 🤣🤣🤣

Brindle88 · 14/01/2022 14:26

Staffies can be very good family dogs if socialised around children and constantly supervised around young children. They were bred for ratting and dog fighting, but their handlers didn’t want a dog that would turn on them, so human aggressive dogs were usually culled. This has resulted in a breed that is very loving and friendly towards humans.

I have a staffie, she is well socialised and wants to say hello to everyone she meets and wags her tail furiously at strangers. However, I would not leave her alone with a baby or toddler. Staffies were also bred to not back down in a fight, and if a toddler were to pull her ears and make her believe she was under attack, she could be dangerous. Small babies, by the way they move and the noises they make, can trigger prey drive in dogs. Being a terrier, she has the instinct to grab hold of prey and to shake it dead. I’ve seen her do it with squeaky toys.

All dogs are predators, have prey drive, and can become defensive when threatened. Personally I wouldn’t own any breed of dog if I had a baby or toddler as it’s too much work to do the constant supervision involved.