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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think some dog breeds should never ever be around babies and children

254 replies

Redburnett · 13/01/2022 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59953038
Such a sad case where the dogs had apparently never shown aggressive tendencies previously.

OP posts:
SpringersLoveSofas · 14/01/2022 14:36

30 years ago staffies didn't kill anyone... because the breed of choice for people more interested in a weapon than a dog, was a pit bull.

Ban pit bulls, staffies rise.

Ban staffies and another breed will take their place.

All things being equal...

  • Put a labrador in the hands of people selecting breeding pairs by size and aggression, subject them to early years of neglect and being pushed to greater and greater levels of aggression and you'll have a dangerous lab.
  • Put a staffie in the hands of someone who breeds for stable temperament and sociability, subject them to great and well rounded socilisation and years and years of good care and you'll have a stable and safe staffie.

(and I say that as someone who's own dog had 50% of their skin torn off and was almost killed by an off lead staffie)

What needs tackling is the multifactoral problem of people getting dogs when they have zero interest in the animal's specific needs and providing a good and healthy environment for them to live. That goes equally for those that buy a dog just to ignore it and those that get a dog specifically to look hard. And the general approach to dog breeding that focusses on producing something that looks good (cute, tough etc) over a healthy and well rounded dog. Too much form over function.

Nobody disputes a collie has the genetic predisposition to herd sheep, that a terrier will rat, a pointer will point and a retriever will retrieve.

For what it's worth, the herding instinct, ratting instinct, pointing instinct and retrieving instinct are all sections of the SAME instinct - which is to kill. They are all part of the dog's own behaviour to see, orient, chase, catch, kill, dissect, eat. When a collie is herding, they are emphasising the first elements of that sequence: they are essentially hunting sheep. Less about staffies and more just general chatting, now :)

WiddlinDiddlin · 14/01/2022 19:36

@getsanta

Most terriers except perhaps the tiniest toy terriers, are easily capable of killing a newborn or small baby.

Capable yes, but almost never happens. And yes, before people trot it out, I know a JRT has once killed a baby, but that is a massive anomaly compared to the number of Staffordshire terriers that have done so.

Loads of kids have been bitten by JRT types.. they are pretty high up the bite risk list..

Why don't they kill more often - probably the type of people they appeal to...

Everyone knows small terriers can be snappy and stroppy, won't tolerate shit, will react, are bred not to back down and to take on foes bigger than themselves.

People who own JRT types are not under any illusion about what they've got..

Staffie types are promoted as 'nanny dogs' in some bizarre attempt to make them seem saintlier than humans, which is utter balls.

They got this rep as when dog fighting was a big thing, and the 'working class man' needed an economical dog to keep, that would rat, fight AND could be taken home to the family... a dog that was incredibly tolerant to humans and in particular, children, was highly sought after.

A dog that fights in the pit, but can't be pulled out by hand whilst adrenalin is high.. is no use whatsoever. A dog that can't be stitched up on the kitchen table and then let down to run around with the kids.. is no use.

So back then.. these dogs were bred not only to HATE other dogs/rats/badgers/whatever.. but ALSO to be incredibly tolerant of people.

That has changed, for the last 40 years or more, certain dogs have been bred to be used as weapons against both dogs AND other humans, and if that means they're crated in a basement, muzzled every second except when fighting, kept on chains in yards and handled only by one person.. fine, they don't care.

So there is no more breeding for tolerance to people - just 'bite and kill'.

Many owners who are not of the dog fighting/dogs as weapons types.. are wholly unaware of what a terrier type dog is, how they think and react, most of them would have no idea about dog behaviour and what might trigger a predatory response. They buy this 'nanny dog' bullshit... and they buy their dog from a dodgy breeder, (note these dogs NEVER come from reputable breeders!), from a mate down the pub, from a free ad... and shove it in with their kids..

This truly is a people problem more than it ever is a breed problem. Each time we ban a breed, we'll push those people who want dangerous dogs into another breed.

We already have.. pitbulls are now not the big deal they once were, the real underground fighting/aggressive/weapon dog types have got gull terrs, bully kuttas, caucasian shepherds, belgian malinois even...

Those who aren't into fighting but want to swagger about with impressive (so they think) dogs straining on a lead have got microbullies, cane corsos, dogs with their ears hacked off and rippling muscles.

If these people owned Labradors.. there would be more child deaths as a result of Labradors, its the behaviour of the people that causes the dangerous dog.

How many attacks/deaths have there been from dogs bought from a reputable, ethical breeder?
Taken to training classes and raised using positive reinforcement from small puppyhood onwards?
Owned by people who are up to speed on science based dog training and handling?

lborgia · 14/01/2022 19:55

@getsanta - I'm not sure which published paper you were reading that showed the one attack by a JRT being a "massive anomaly".

Here in the real world, just last year's figures show that Jack Russells were responsible for more bites to humans than any other breed, in Liverpool. Which has the highest number of dog bites in the UK.

Hmm
getsanta · 14/01/2022 19:57

[quote lborgia]@getsanta - I'm not sure which published paper you were reading that showed the one attack by a JRT being a "massive anomaly".

Here in the real world, just last year's figures show that Jack Russells were responsible for more bites to humans than any other breed, in Liverpool. Which has the highest number of dog bites in the UK.

Hmm[/quote]
I said "killed" not bitten.

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