To think some dog breeds should never ever be around babies and children

[Redburnett]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59953038
Such a sad case where the dogs had apparently never shown aggressive tendencies previously.

The issue isn't the breed of dog. It's the moronic parents who leave a baby and dog unattended. Any breed of dog can attack.

No breed should be left unattended with small children. Any animal can cause damage if it is that way out, it is not breed/species specific and yes the training offered by owners does play a big part. Parents need to train children how to behave around animals from a young age to minimise the risk too.

In the article they are described as Staffordshire Bull Terrier ‘ type’ dogs which means they could be mixed with any other breed, unknown unless dna profiling is carried out. They are therefore cross breed dogs but that doesn’t fit with the killer dog narrative! Staffie labels get used too easily in my opinion.
Pedigree pure bred Staffordshire bull terriers (which are actually much smaller than the ones most people are used to seeing) are amazing family pets when trained from a young age and children are involved in the training.
And they do not have the capacity to ‘lock jaw’ that is a myth.

In fact, my sisters friend had her top lip bitten clean off by the families elderly golden retriever, literally out of nowhere, the sweetest girl you could ever know, never an aggressive bone in her body. The vet concluded either dementia or pain or both, the dog was destroyed and her friend had years of surgery for her face.

We are aware any dog can attack a child

But when we hear of a dog killing a child it’s a dog of a few select breads. I (and others) can not understand why people would choose to have these dogs around small children not matter how well trained they are or vigilant the parents are. We can all be caught off guard at some point

I feel it’s stupid to take such an unnecessary risk

@Widgets I attend ringcraft with one of the UK top Staffordshire bull terrier kennels.
Every last dog they bring is aggressive to other dogs and looks shifty as hell, even last weeks 8 week old puppy was snapping at other dogs and growling at anything that moves.

If that’s the standard of the best of the best I hate to see the rest of them.

I’m not saying all bulls are bad but I would never own a dog bred for any blood sport regardless of size or type. Genetics trumps almost everything, I wish people would do more research into what they were buying.

@longwayoff

Any dog can damage a child. They should never - big or small dog - be left alone together. Dog owners who won't acknowledge this are either stupid or wilfully ignorant.

I love dogs and grew up in a household with quite a few. But that experience thought me never to leave a baby or child alone with a dog. My favourite dog bit me when I was about 6 - had never shown any aggression to me or my siblings in the previous six years. You just don’t know what dogs will do, even if they have a history of being very gentle. Both dogs and children are unpredictable. I’m trying to raise my children to like and be comfortable with dogs, because I think even though we don’t have dogs, it will make their lives easier as dogs are very common where we live (and also because dogs are great). But I’d never take my eyes off them when dogs are around.

This case is very, very sad.

I would never trust a Collie around a small child, even if supervised. I would never leave a dog of any breed alone with a baby.

But, to address a few myths around Staffies. They were fighting dogs if you go back a hundred generations, but they were also bred to be a working class man's dog that would live with the family in a small house between occasional fights. Staffies thrive on human affection, and the fastest way of getting them to turn is emotional abandonment. Some people just move from one adult toy to another - the dog gets displaced by the baby, and the owner-parent just isn't mature enough to manage to look after both. It's a tragedy, and it's avoidable.

@HacerSonarSusPasos

I know I'm going to get shit for this, but I think anyone who keeps a pitbull type dog around their kids is massively irresponsible and naive and deserves to go to prison if the dog end up injuring or killing the kids.

Same.

I actually know someone, though not well at all who has two staffie x pitbulls and young kids. She even has a new baby and let's the baby sleep next to the dogs.

I've mentioned that it's not safe, even though it's really not my place and she was quite understandably upset with me. I couldn't not say anything and was honestly shocked by quite a lot of her parenting so took a big step back from the relationship.

As far as she is concerned, her dogs would never harm anyone. I don't think they should be given an opportunity.

@3ormoredogs I attend dog agility with Staffordshire bull terriers and they all get along well, because they have all been socialised from a very young age but I totally understand that some are dog aggressive, and if they are it can be a big issue as they are strong powerful dogs.
I would never leave any dog alone with my children. We have baby gates in the kitchen and utility room where the dog sleeps.
I may be lucky that my staffy is amazing with others, we do charity dog walks and she gets on with all breeds and all people too.
Every dog is different, I just wish they wouldn’t all get given the same label
And in this awful baby case, I thinks it’s child neglect as the parents didn’t follow social services safety plan of keeping the dogs in a different room.

For those saying they were bred for blood sports, I own 2 dogs (completely different breeds) whose ancestors were originally bred for ‘ratting’ neither of mine have any kind of prey drive

I attend ringcraft with one of the UK top Staffordshire bull terrier kennels. Every last dog they bring is aggressive to other dogs and looks shifty as hell, even last weeks 8 week old puppy was snapping at other dogs and growling at anything that moves

That'll mean they are breeding for looks, not temperament.

I didn't have a dog at all whilst the DC were young - and the one we have now came to us when youngest DC was a teenager. DDog was bred for temperament (I knew her maternal line well, and they are all very good natured). But even with that, I'd not have left younger DC unsupervised with her.

There were clearly issues with the parents to be in the process before th baby was born. Why weren’t they required to get rid of the dogs rather than come up with a complicated plan which requires organisation, discipline, routine etc - things the parents are by definition going to struggle with.

Would the dog have done this if it had been kept in another room from the child or the child had been put out of reach? No.
This is down to people who shouldn't be parents not dogs that shouldn't be in the home.
Who goes out for a fag leaving a dog with a baby while your partner is asleep? Take the bloody dog with you!

Not the most in depth research, but Wikipedia does have a page on UK dog attack fatalities.

Between 2010-2019 there were 27 fatalities.

The most frequently mentioned type of dog is (involved in 13 deaths) are the Staffie/pit bull terriers. Second most mentioned (involved in 9 deaths) are American bulldog/unspecified bulldog types. 4 involved a mastiff, 2 a GSD and then a mongrel, malamute, JR terrier, Lakeland terrier and an unknown. To put that in an easier list:

Staffies/Pit Bull types - 13
American Bulldog types - 9
Mastiffs - 4
GSD - 2
Mongrel - 1
Jack Russell - 1
Lakeland - 1
Malamute - 1
Unknown - 1

I’m sure a Well Actually will be along shortly to say that staffies aren’t dangerous.

I’m sure I’m going to be flamed for being offensive, but whenever these cases make the news, the dog is never owned by a nice, middle class professional family living in a nice part of town with their pet - though plenty of Staffies are owned by people like that perfectly uneventfully. The families involved in these cases are almost invariably somewhat chaotic, dysfunctional types in deprived areas with far too many children between them, with the sort of physical appearance not too dissimilar from their squat, muscular dog itself. The breed isn’t the common denominator.*

True there's normally some history or neglect involved prior but these types of dog have so much more power. They can kill adults - a Jack Russell etc. can't.

But it's true all dogs can do harm and have the potential to kill a baby.

Parents story doesn't add up to me. How in hell do you sleep through a dog attack? From what I understood the mother was in the room sleeping and was awoke when dad came in.

@Aldidl

Not the most in depth research, but Wikipedia does have a page on UK dog attack fatalities.

Between 2010-2019 there were 27 fatalities.

The most frequently mentioned type of dog is (involved in 13 deaths) are the Staffie/pit bull terriers. Second most mentioned (involved in 9 deaths) are American bulldog/unspecified bulldog types. 4 involved a mastiff, 2 a GSD and then a mongrel, malamute, JR terrier, Lakeland terrier and an unknown. To put that in an easier list:

Staffies/Pit Bull types - 13
American Bulldog types - 9
Mastiffs - 4
GSD - 2
Mongrel - 1
Jack Russell - 1
Lakeland - 1
Malamute - 1
Unknown - 1

I’m sure a Well Actually will be along shortly to say that staffies aren’t dangerous.

Entirely agree. It's delusion to claim there's no pattern here. If you breed thug fighting dogs with big jaws, then that's what you get

A good friend of mine had a Westie, lovely little thing. When friend had her first baby, Westie got very jealous & snappy of baby. Needless to say, Westie got rehomed pretty quickly. It's not just 'staffies' & pit bulls that are dangerous.

For me, it’s not about the breed. Yes certain breeds have a higher prey drive and are more prone to aggression, but personally I don’t trust any dog, no matter what breed around a young child without constant adult supervision.
All it takes is for the dog - whether it be a tiny Yorkshire terrier or a giant Rottweiler - to take a dislike to a noise a toddler makes or the way the child touches them and that’s it. The switch flips and a child ends up seriously injured or dead.
I adore dogs. I think they make fantastic family pets, but at the end of the day, they are still a predator in nature, and should be supervised around children.
My parents had a Jack Russell who’d never been aggressive in his life, but he took a dislike to the noise whenever my DCs were at the house. He hates his teeth once, and that was enough for both me and my parents to ensure he either wasn’t in the same room as the DCs, or if he was then there was an adult within arms reach of him at all times.
My sister’s dog on the other hand, is an enormous mixed bull-breed. He looks like he would tear your head off. But actually, he’s one of the gentlest dogs I’ve ever encountered. I’m not even sure he knows he’s a dog - but even so, the sheer power and force he would be capable of exerting makes me constantly aware of where my DCs are if we are at my sister’s house.
It’s not about breed.

It's not the breed it's the owner. Always.

Unfortunately the type of family this awful kind of thing happens to are always the same. These types of people are always attracted to the current "hard man" dog. Right now that is Staffies and pit bull types. 20 years ago these same people were attracted to Rottweilers and Dobermans. Nobody really batted an eye at pitbulls back then.. the dog in the Little Rascals film (Pete) was a pitbull. He was a great family pet :).

To those people saying that labs/poodles/spaniels etc never bite.. I worked in assessing dogs in rescue and I can tell you for sure that they do. In fact they were often some of the more difficult cases we got in. Obviously we got lots of lovely ones in too! The majority of the dogs in rescue were staffy or starry type dogs (mostly because the oweners tended to be more irresponsible) and the vast majority of them were lovely dogs. Often the only dogs we'd have that were suitable for families with children were staffy types!

This isn't about the dog being a staffie.

Baby Reuben was on the child protection register before he was born.
The parents had been advised about the dogs and how to parent with them.
He went out for a cigarette leaving the baby with the dog around.
She took sleeping pills whilst sitting besides a baby balanced on the sofa with the dog around.
The blame lies squarely with their parenting and lack of adequate care to both Reuben and the dog.

What is a 'staffy type dog'??? Sounds like really lazy, under researched reporting. Was it a staffy, a cross breed, a mongrel, part Pitbull, all Pitbull? Not clear, but another reason for staffies to get it on the neck because of crap reporting (they can be amazing dogs and I have one)

Actually I think in this case it proves that some people should never be parents.

@Thatsplentyjack

Actually I think in this case it proves that some people should never be parents.

Exactly. The dog breed is irrelevant in this case. I think the dogs have just saved them from taking the brunt of the blame. Intentionally or not, I'm really not sure. The story is very odd.

I don't know how people still say its not the breed of the dog. In these cases it's always a similar breed of dog who carry out these attacks.